Need some flintlock help

[16gauge]

O.K., I've had this Pedersoli trade musket for a few years now, and I've taken it to the range and practiced with it. However, I have NEVER been able to get more than 6 shots with it before the flint will no longer spark. Lately, at the range the most I get is 3-5 shots, which I find a bit disconcerting because from what I've read everybody else is getting 20+ shots before their flint quits sparking.

Today I took the gun squirrel hunting again, and this time I missed no less that FOUR squirrels because every time I tried to shoot it, it wouldn't spark.....and this is even after changing flints! I tried 3 times on one squirrel alone, without success.

I'm frustrated to the point that I am ready to throw this damn gun into the lake....or at least trade it for a percussion gun. Those I KNOW how to make go boom!

What am I doing wrong? I've knapped and ground the flints down since I shot them last; I've tried various flints (English & amber flints); I've tried bevel up....bevel down....nothing seems to make a difference; THE GUN DOESN'T WANT TO FIRE.

Could it be a frizzen problem? Could the frizzen be too soft (or to hard)?

I wanted to hunt with a historical weapon, but I don't get that many chances to go out hunting, and to lose 4 squirrels in one outing is quite a bit bothersome....I'm glad I wasn't deer hunting with it, or the gun would still be out in the woods wrapped around a damn tree!

Please help me solve this problem if you can

 

[Jason Lewis]

see if you can change locks to a quality american made lock. it may be poor lock geometry.

 

[Rebel]

Can you post some GOOD pics of the lock and frizzen both with hammerat half cock and all the way down? Maybe give us an idea as to the problem. Or you could just trade it to me for a Renegade .56 caplock smoothbore. :haha:

 

[J.D.]

If what you have is the Pedersoli trade gun with the LOTT lock, their locks are a POS. Track of the wolf offers the TRYON Flint lock for North West Trade Gun, by Davis, that is recommended as a replacement. While I have no personal experience with this Davis lock, Davis locks are generally very good quality, so it should be a vast improvement over the Pedersoli.

God bless

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

I have a Pedersoli Pennsylvania rifle that starting giving me the same problem. I solved it by simply replacing the frizzen. While some may be able to reharden the frizzen, that was out for me since I'm color blind. I also discovered that I could purchase the new frizzen through DGW for about the same price that it would cost me to have somebody else reharden the old one.

 

[16gauge]

If what you have is the Pedersoli trade gun with the LOTT lock, their locks are a POS. Track of the wolf offers the TRYON Flint lock for North West Trade Gun, by Davis, that is recommended as a replacement.

Is this a drop-in replacement,or is some gunsmithing/inletting involved?

Thanks to all for the responses so far; I will try and post pics later in the week.

 

[Billnpatti]

It sounds to me like you have pared it down to a frizzen problem. If it is a frizzen problem, you can either re-case harden your frizzen with something like Kasenite that is available from Brownell's or you can simply replace the frizzen. The quickest, simplest and cheapest is to buy a new frizzen from one of the muzzleloading supply dealers. Check Muzzleloader Builder's Supply, TVM, Track of The Wolf, Dixie Gun Works, etc. I haven't checked lately to see what a frizzen costs but it is not all that much. It is certainly much less expensive than a new lock

 

[J.D.]

I haven't, personally, replaced a Ped lock with the Davis, so can't comment on what needs to be done to install it.

I suspect that there will be some minor inletting, and the holes for the lock bolts will need to be drilled and tapped, but that should be it.

You mentioned that you had a trade musket. Is this Pedersoli's trade gun, or one of their military muskets? The locks are different for the muskets and trade gun.

IMHO, the musket locks aren't too bad, but the LOTT lock on the trade gun is a poorly designed POS. The geometry of that lock is really bad, and while it can be tuned, it would take more in time and money to fix it than to replace it with a higher quality lock.

You can try to harden the frizzen. It isn't all that difficult, and I will walk you through the process, if you want to try that before replacing the lock, but I doubt that it will make much difference.

If you have one of Ped's muskets, the hardening the frizzen will probably fix it. Again, I can walk you through that process.

God bless

 

[16gauge]

Here are some pictures of the lock and frizzen....hope they are of decent enough quality to help with diagnosing the problem.

 

[ntech]

I have same problem in my DP AN IX musket.I have tried many flints and always the same.I even re- hardened frizzen but I don't know if I made it properly.I tightened main spring also but still no improvement.I supose to re-hardening my frizzen once more but this time I'll try to use Kasenit.If it won't help I'll order new frizzen

 

[Jason Lewis]

i really don't think there is a quick fix for poor lock geometery. surely there must be an exceptable replacement lock.

 

[Parzifal]

Nice looking musket!

What kind of flint are you using there??

I myself always have had problems with the machined agate flints, All I now use are black english flints- I like them greatly!

The angle of attack where your flint strikes the frizzen doesnt look all that bad to me.

your frizzen does look fairly chewed up though, you might want to buy a new one or reharden the one you have there now.

 

[MSW]

i agree with the consensus... you should reharden (try Kasenit) or replace the frizzen.... other than that, it's a nice looking piece.

 

[boar]

I have the blue ridge that eats flints. I use a man made flint and it will last longer,have to sharpen after 3 shots with diamond file. I have started to lighten the frizzen spring. With the frizzen closed,take your thumb and put it on the curl hickie and press down to open it. This will tell if spring is to strong, Should not take very much pressure to open. This is just a way to check, may not be 100 per cent? A gun builder show me this tip. Dilly

 

[Many Klatch]

The deep grooves in your frizzen indicate that it is too soft. Hardening a frizzen is relatively easy if you have some Kasenite on hand. If not you should get some.

Take the frizzen from the gun and lock a Visegrip onto the part with the bolt hole, this will act as a heat sink and keep that part of the frizzen from getting too hard.

Heat the frizzen with an acetylene torch. Propane or Mapp gas will not get it hot enough, trust me on this. Heat it to cherry red, but not straw color.

Sprinkle Kasenite on the face of the frizzen and watch it bubble up. After it forms a crust scrape it off and put more Kasenite on. Repeat this for 15 minutes. This will make a good deep case hardening. It is not however according to the instructions on the can, but that is OK.

After the 15 minutes are up, drop the frizzen into a large can of cold water.

After is has cooled enough to handle put the frizzen into your cook stove and bake at 350 degrees for 1 hour.

The Frizzen is now ready to use.

Many Klatch

 

[paulvallandigham]

The problem using Cut Agate "flints" ( Man made) is that they saw across the natural fracture lines, and AGate does not have the same kind of fracture lines as chert, or flint has. That means that the edge of the agate flint does NOT break off like a real flint will. They tend to gouge the frizzen, and go blunt rather quickly, because they do not fracture correctly.

I don't recommend using these man made "flints" for that reason. You can buy flints from our member, Rich Pierce, made from flint found in the Missouri area, that work great, or buy the English Flints, which have been the standard for gunflints for centuries. Because these flints are "Knapped", ie, percussive blows to the larger flint rock causes the rock to shatter along the rocks normal fracture lines, the flints break off a clean edge when the flint is mounted in the jaws of the cock so that it strikes the face of the frizzen at a 60 degree angle of impact. Breaking off that thin piece of edge removes and metal that might have clogged part of the edge, and leaves you with a new sharp edge for the next shot.

After about 20 strikes, or shots, the flint will have shortened down enough that the edge now is becoming blunt. Just move the flint forward in the jaws of the cock, wedging the flint and your flint wrap with a twig to hold them forward, and retighten the jaws. Now, dress the flint's edge by lifting up the frizzen so that the edge of the flint will strike the heel of the frizzen, cock the hammer to full cock, and pull the trigger so that the flint DOES strike the heel. Now you have a new sharp edge across the full width of the flint/frizzen, and you are ready to go.

I have some nice, expensive, cut agate "flints " I was given to try. I am trying to find some, er, sucker to unload them on. I intend to take them to Friendship the next visit and see if I can trade them for knapped flints, or look for some guy who can't wait to buy agate "flints".

 

[J.D.]

I can't read the name on the lock, in front of the cock, but it looks like LOTT. If that is the case, the best and least expensive solution, in the long run, is to replace the lock.

Track of the Wolf's catalog has full size illustrations of their locks, so I suggest ordering a catalog and tracing the outline of the Tryon lock to see how well it will fit your lock mortise.

As has been said, there isn't much that can be done to fix bad lock geometry. However, if you want to try hardening the frizzen and using better flints before replacing the lock, it isn't all that expensive to harden a frizzen.

If you can't harden the frizzen yourself, I'll harden it for you. You can pay me if it solves the problem, if not, you don't own me a thing, other than shipping.

God bless

 

[cpinkhaminsc]

I too have suffered through a LOTT lock, having hardened the frizzen, dressed the metal surfaces with a stone, replaced springs and generally wasted a whole bunch of time on it. It will always be a sow's ear. Just go directly to Track or Davis and by the Tryon lock. You'll probably have to slightly enlarge the mortise and may want to shim the top of your trigger to get a smoother release, but we're talking a few coffee breaks in time. The new lock is like going from an old Renault to a new BMW, you'll kick yourself for not doing it sooner. And you'll enjoy the gun from now on. :thumbsup: