My 12 year old youngin' is really into throwing hawks and I want to encourage it by getting him a a couple to practice with. I've got an old clunker and my shrewwhawk he's using now. Can people share some of their hawk throwing experience to help me choose what to get. I'm looking to buy at least a couple, which will be his to take care of. He can stick the shrewhawk pretty good. Anyone have experience throwing them ? How about HB forge? others? I'd prefer something forged and HC and made in USA if possible. Any imput would be appreciated- John
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Need tomahawk advise
- Thread starter John Tice
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With all due respect to the fine, hand forged hawk makers, I think a $20 Crazy Crow hawk is perfect for this sort of thing. It will last your lifetime and it's all you need to throw at a log.
blacksmithman64
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you just can't beat a H&B for quality, and other than replacing handles and an occasional sharpening they're just about trouble free
paulvallandigham
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I bought a couple of H&B Forge hawks back before there were the cast hawks at CrazyCrow. For a kid who may or may not continue his interest in throwing hawks, buy the cheaper hawks at CrazyCrow. Let him save his money to buy one or two of the H&B hawks.
shooyer_250
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JOHN, if you'd like to PT me, we perhaps could discuss throwing hawks...Lee
Muskeg Stomper
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I agree with Carl that an inexpensive hawk from Crazy Crow or other vendors is just fine. I've learned from experience with three of my own kids that it's best to avoid starting them with a mouse hawk. I simply start them throwing with a full sized hawk with the handle cut down to their size. I use a measurement from their elbow to their fingertips and that seems to work very well. They can make it stick sooner and more consistantly which really keeps them interested. Additionally, you just replace handles as the kids grow bigger and they are already used to the head weight.
:2
:2
I would also tend to agree to start them out with a full-sized hawk. Just not one of those half-axe heavy ones. Those small "mouse hawks" are fine for little kids, but they will need to get used to a regular sized hawk at some point.
And also go with a less expensive one. They can take a beating, and will be good to learn with. Just make sure it uses a standard handle size that you can get. The handles take most of the beatings, especially when the kids start playing "handles" matches/games.
But be a little careful with some of the cheapo's. Crazy Crow imports a lot of them, and are also a major wholesaler to most vendors you see at events. Some of their imports are "hand forged", but have problems inside them. The blades were wrapped around an eye mandrel, and fully forged out to that classic hawk blade shape. But then the two halves are ... arc welded ... together and ground to clean them up. Yeah, they went to all the trouble to forge out the correct shape on both sides, wrap it around an eye mandrel, but then didn't forge-weld the two parts together. So in use those two halves have a tendency to crack and split apart - especially if you resharpen the cutting edge a few times. You end up grinding off the arc-weld holding it together. If you pop the handle out and look down inside the eye, you can tell if it was arc-welded. That welding won't be ground smooth inside.
Now, they still are good "beater" hawks - especially for the price. They just won't hold up in the long run - or with heavy use.
Once your son gets some use and experience with hawk throwing, then it would be time to see about investing in a better one.
And don't automatically disregard Cast hawk heads. There are many really good ones out there. They are not cast iron, but cast STEEL. And the quality of that cast steel is usually pretty good. I have several that have held up quite well with the beatings they have taken. Even the couple factory "seconds" I picked up years ago have held up well. A little careful filing/grinding cleaned up the few problem areas from the original casting.
Just make sure you have a source of replacement handles that fit whatever hawk you choose. That will end up being the biggest concern over time.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
And also go with a less expensive one. They can take a beating, and will be good to learn with. Just make sure it uses a standard handle size that you can get. The handles take most of the beatings, especially when the kids start playing "handles" matches/games.
But be a little careful with some of the cheapo's. Crazy Crow imports a lot of them, and are also a major wholesaler to most vendors you see at events. Some of their imports are "hand forged", but have problems inside them. The blades were wrapped around an eye mandrel, and fully forged out to that classic hawk blade shape. But then the two halves are ... arc welded ... together and ground to clean them up. Yeah, they went to all the trouble to forge out the correct shape on both sides, wrap it around an eye mandrel, but then didn't forge-weld the two parts together. So in use those two halves have a tendency to crack and split apart - especially if you resharpen the cutting edge a few times. You end up grinding off the arc-weld holding it together. If you pop the handle out and look down inside the eye, you can tell if it was arc-welded. That welding won't be ground smooth inside.
Now, they still are good "beater" hawks - especially for the price. They just won't hold up in the long run - or with heavy use.
Once your son gets some use and experience with hawk throwing, then it would be time to see about investing in a better one.
And don't automatically disregard Cast hawk heads. There are many really good ones out there. They are not cast iron, but cast STEEL. And the quality of that cast steel is usually pretty good. I have several that have held up quite well with the beatings they have taken. Even the couple factory "seconds" I picked up years ago have held up well. A little careful filing/grinding cleaned up the few problem areas from the original casting.
Just make sure you have a source of replacement handles that fit whatever hawk you choose. That will end up being the biggest concern over time.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
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shooter_250 said:
And why not post it here and share the information? (the reason for the forum) or, is this some secret hawk information that you cannot share? You selling hawks? :rotf:
shooyer_250
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why Carl...the reason i'd like to speak to John would be nonya...none ya damn business..get it, got it, good....Lee
John, about twenty years ago :shocked2: I ordered a 'hawk sight unseen, just because I liked the shape and the reviews. Got it from 'The Hawken Shop'. It's cast steel, tempered, with a soft back and really holds an edge. I have two girls that started throwing it at about 9y/o.(also about twenty yaes ago!) Really nice and balanced...liked it so much I bought another, then another last year (3rd), so I could keep one for myself. Little pricey, but you won't be disappointed.
Google them, I think they are still in business, good folks.
Jim W
Google them, I think they are still in business, good folks.
Jim W
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shooter_250 said:
Then why not JUST PT HIM. Why the public announcement?
Carl Davis said:
The Moderators and I just had this discussion.
In the time it takes to ask someone to PT you, you could just PT them. That also keeps the dialog private as it should be.
shooyer_250
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i don't usually PT folks without asking 1st, i will however start my apologies..Lee
You guys are offering some real sound advise and I appreciate it :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing your experience. I think I will go with a standard size and less expensive make. If my boy is anyhting like me at that age these things will take some hard use :haha:
Couple more questions:
Is there a difference with a round poll vs a hammer poll for throwing ?
Anyone throw the hawks offered by Townsend and son? TH-54 ? http://jas-townsend.com/index.php?cPath=20
Couple more questions:
Is there a difference with a round poll vs a hammer poll for throwing ?
Anyone throw the hawks offered by Townsend and son? TH-54 ? http://jas-townsend.com/index.php?cPath=20
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I say, buy AMERICAN MADE. not imported..
that is why we are in the trouble we are in now.
One quality hand made forged full sized hawk will last you and your son a life time. Even if he losses interest. You still have a great hawk. JMHO
that is why we are in the trouble we are in now.
One quality hand made forged full sized hawk will last you and your son a life time. Even if he losses interest. You still have a great hawk. JMHO
John Tice said:
Some events limit the size of the "blade", but I wouldn't worry about that. Townsend's TH-54 would be great. IMO
blacksmithman64
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I believe yer standard throwin hawks are pretty similar, the poll head might be a fuzz heavier; and a LOT better for driving in tent stakes :wink: Any blade wide enough to cut a card in half is good.
Muskeg Stomper
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For a kid, you'll probably want to stay away from a hammer poll. Most kids throw hawks LOTS at rendezvous and a hammer poll will get awfully heavy by the end of the day.
I know some adults that like throwing hammer polled hawks. Just seems to be a matter of personal preference.
Hammer polls are handy around camp howsomever.
I know some adults that like throwing hammer polled hawks. Just seems to be a matter of personal preference.
Hammer polls are handy around camp howsomever.
Some places/groups/events do have a regulation on the max length of the cutting edge on hawks used in their competitions. The NMLRA used to have a limit of 4 inches, but I don't know if they still do.
Some people had started "cheating" by bringing medieval style battle axes to use in the Card Cutting tomahawk competitions. A 6 inch or longer cutting edge greatly improves your possibility of cutting that card, and cutting it in half. So that 4 inch max cutting edge length got implemented in many places. All because "winning" at any cost became more important to some people than the "spirit" of the competition.
Just something else to keep in mind when choosing a hawk.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
Some people had started "cheating" by bringing medieval style battle axes to use in the Card Cutting tomahawk competitions. A 6 inch or longer cutting edge greatly improves your possibility of cutting that card, and cutting it in half. So that 4 inch max cutting edge length got implemented in many places. All because "winning" at any cost became more important to some people than the "spirit" of the competition.
Just something else to keep in mind when choosing a hawk.
Mikey - that grumpy ol' German blacksmith out in the Hinterlands
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