New .54/Green Mountain Questions

[dchawken]

I started out with a .50 CVA Hawken, which I still like (fit and finish notwithstanding), but felt the need to expand. I wanted something different, maybe a little flexible. So, I bought an older T/C Renegade stock (1" channel) with all the hardware on eBay, and a spankin' new Green Mountain .54 1x70 barrel. It all came together today, and I have a few questions:

First, the ramrod that came with the barrel extends about 1" past the muzzle. I can't bore the hole deeper, it's already nearly to the trigger guard screw. Is this a problem? I appreciate the extra inch or so of ramrod, but it's right there next to the blast.

Second, it feels when I drop the ramrod down that there's a short, under-bore chamber in the breechblock leading back to the nipple/snail. Anybody know how much powder this holds? I'd hate to seat a ball on an airspace over a light load

Third, can anyone tell me what kind of max load I should consider for this barrel? The manual was vague, stating "most traditional muzzleloaders shoot best with between 70 and 110 grains", but nothing on max safe load. Granted, I'm probably only kill paper and cans, and I know that accuracy trumps power, but I'd like to know the outer safe limit. From the looks of this massive thing, I'm thinking Buffalo may not be out of the question (after all, they're so plentiful here in DC). Obviously, with a 1x70 twist, I plan on shooting PRBs.

Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

I started out with a .50 CVA Hawken, which I still like (fit and finish notwithstanding), but felt the need to expand. I wanted something different, maybe a little flexible. So, I bought an older T/C Renegade stock (1" channel) with all the hardware on eBay, and a spankin' new Green Mountain .54 1x70 barrel. It all came together today, and I have a few questions:

First, the ramrod that came with the barrel extends about 1" past the muzzle. I can't bore the hole deeper, it's already nearly to the trigger guard screw. Is this a problem? I appreciate the extra inch or so of ramrod, but it's right there next to the blast.

Won't cause any harm although you could get a proper length ramrod made.

Second, it feels when I drop the ramrod down that there's a short, under-bore chamber in the breechblock leading back to the nipple/snail. Anybody know how much powder this holds? I'd hate to seat a ball on an airspace over a light load

That's a small powder chamber designed down in the "Patent Breech"...I actually have a spare TC breechplug and tested just that to find it holds about 15-18grns of powder...so not to worry.

Third, can anyone tell me what kind of max load I should consider for this barrel? The manual was vague, stating "most traditional muzzleloaders shoot best with between 70 and 110 grains", but nothing on max safe load. Granted, I'm probably only kill paper and cans, and I know that accuracy trumps power, but I'd like to know the outer safe limit. From the looks of this massive thing, I'm thinking Buffalo may not be out of the question (after all, they're so plentiful here in DC). Obviously, with a 1x70 twist, I plan on shooting PRBs.

TC's owner's manual list 120grns FFg as the max load for a patched ball in a .54cal

 

[cayugad]

My .58 Green Mountain Barrel is also 1:70 twist. I load 100 grains of Goex 2f and a patched roundball with moosemilk lube and the accuracy is outstanding. This thing will really shoot. I am guessing that your rifle would handle the same type of load.

And as roundball said, do not worry about the ramrod. If it bothers you that much get a different ramrod.

 

[dchawken]

Thanks for the load info.

Actually, the ramrod doesn't really bother me that much, I just wasn't sure if it was a good idea to have it hanging out there.

 

[rrgr40]

You are going to love that rifle, it will be your new best buddy. With a 1 in 70 twist it's likely that you need 100+ grains of powder to stabilize that bullet. Don't be afraid to try FFG or FFFG powder. Mine actually uses less powder and at least equal accuracy with FFFG. Another option I have recently explored was the MiniBall. I bought a Lee, improved Miniball mould, lubed them up with some bore butter. They were very accurate and pack one heck of a wallop. Good Luck! :m2c:

 

[SCATTERSHOT]

I would think bulls are more prevalent in DC.. after all, lots of B.S. there! I shoot 90 gr. FFg in my Green Mountain .54. You'll love it.

Good luck!
Gene

 

[LeeRoy87]

One ruinous problem to very much beware of with the new-fangled Green Mountain aluminum ramrods is that the brass fittings will pull out of the ends of the aluminum tubing when you use these accursed ramrods as cleaning rods or to pull a ball.

This happened to me on the first day out with a new .54 GM barrel a couple of years ago, and it ruined the whole day and then some!

I was swabbing out the bore with a solvent-saturated but tight wool patch after firing a three-round string (my usual proceedure when developing accuracy loads for the patched round ball). The fitting pulled out almost immediately, rendering the barrel useless. The problem is inherent in the ramrod's idiotic design: the tip is merely press-fit into the aluminum tubing.

During the next two hours I tried everything I could think of to extract the ramrod-tip and patch, which was lodged in the bore about six inches from the breechplug. All that happened was my fellow shooters heard increasingly frustrated swearing not only in English, but in bad French and obscene Korean --this followed by a final, thoroughly embittered summation: "the real reason for outsourcing is that American workmanship has become a contradiction in terms." Then I gave up in disgust, left the range and went home.

Finally -- maybe a day later (I don't generally remember the minute details of such profoundly unpleasant experiences, particularly when they're inflicted by obvious product inferiority) -- it occurred to me to Mickey Mouse rig a .22-caliber one-piece cleaning rod with a small (probably #8) fishhook wired into the opening of a slotted tip (aka "eye" or "loop"). The rod pushed the gizmo past the stuck patch and tip, pulling back engaged the fishhook -- as I remember this took two or three tries -- and out came the problem.

When I discovered it is no longer possible to obtain those wonderful glass-impregnated hickory ramrods Thompson/Center used to sell -- today's non-impregnated hickory ramrods typically break the first time you use them -- I was again disgusted, but quickly came up with the following fix:

I reassembled the ramrod, wrapped it in inner-tube rubber to protect its finish, locked it in my bench vise, and drilled a tiny hole close enough to the end of the aluminum tubing to penetrate both rod and tip. I used the smallest drill bit I own (probably 1/32nd). Then I rummaged around in my parts cans: I lived in the country then and had a workshop complete with several decades' accumulation of gun parts, none of which, sadly, I have now. I came up with a proper-diameter brass pin, drove it through the hole, trimmed it off, peened it down on both sides and filed the resultant pin-heads just enough to enable the ramrod fit the ramrod pipes.

The ramrod will now function dependably as a cleaning rod. But no thanks to Green Mountain, who despite the unequalled excellence of their barrels themselves are nevertheless selling what is undoubtedly the worst "as-issued" ramrod I have ever encountered. As always -- especially in the realm of black powder -- caveat emptor: buyer beware!

 

[cayugad]

OldGrayWolf

I suffered the same fate with the ramrods from Green Mountian Barrel Company. In fact I even contacted them and told them they sold an excellent barrel but their ramrods were junk. Rick Sanborn of GMB agreed. He said I was not the only one that complained. Seems they changed companies that provided the ramrods. The ones delivered had problems in keeping their ends on.

They have since changed to a new flexable ramrod. And the ends are pinned!

 

[dchawken]

Interesting feedback on the ramrods. Its amazing how such a simple bit of equipment can have such an impact on a day of shooting.

After my last post, I decided that the ramrod extending past the barrel really did kind of bother me. Track of the Wolf seems to have a good replacement. Since I have to pick up some .54 cal bits and pieces as well, I figured I'd just replace the ramrod. Luckily, I can spare the $13.50

The current rod is aluminum (reason eough) but seems well made, and is pinned about 1" below each end. Not sure what that acheives exactly.

Overall, I have to admit that this rifle is head and shoulders above my CVA Hawken. The double set triggers on the CVA are almost useless (set the trigger and the front trigger goes off w/ barely a touch, regardless of the adjustment). The stock was third grade wood that they wrapped in a "wood" vinyl finish, in the same way camo is applied. After sanding it all off and refinishing, it's kind of nice, but the gaps in the inletting are disappointing.

I bought a CVA because I remembered the name from the 70s, and assumed the longevity equaled quality. I notice CVA sidelocks disappearing, so I assume they're getting out of the business. It's a shame, because I know from the posts on this board that they produced some quality guns in the past. I think that the Q.C. was just running down as they came to the end of production.

The CVA is a tack driver though, no doubt about it. I just shot a 3" PRB 5 shot group at 100 yards with it, probably my best. It's just a shame that the rest of the gun isn't up to the same quality. I don't have the experience of this board, but if I had the money and the do-over, I'd go with a GPR or a T/C.

 

[roundball]

One ruinous problem to very much beware of with the new-fangled Green Mountain aluminum ramrods is that the brass fittings will pull out of the ends of the aluminum tubing when you use these accursed ramrods as cleaning rods or to pull a ball.

This happened to me on the first day out with a new .54 GM barrel a couple of years ago, and it ruined the whole day and then some!

I was swabbing out the bore with a solvent-saturated but tight wool patch after firing a three-round string (my usual proceedure when developing accuracy loads for the patched round ball). The fitting pulled out almost immediately, rendering the barrel useless. The problem is inherent in the ramrod's idiotic design: the tip is merely press-fit into the aluminum tubing.

During the next two hours I tried everything I could think of to extract the ramrod-tip and patch, which was lodged in the bore about six inches from the breechplug. All that happened was my fellow shooters heard increasingly frustrated swearing not only in English, but in bad French and obscene Korean --this followed by a final, thoroughly embittered summation: "the real reason for outsourcing is that American workmanship has become a contradiction in terms." Then I gave up in disgust, left the range and went home.

Finally -- maybe a day later (I don't generally remember the minute details of such profoundly unpleasant experiences, particularly when they're inflicted by obvious product inferiority) -- it occurred to me to Mickey Mouse rig a .22-caliber one-piece cleaning rod with a small (probably #8) fishhook wired into the opening of a slotted tip (aka "eye" or "loop"). The rod pushed the gizmo past the stuck patch and tip, pulling back engaged the fishhook -- as I remember this took two or three tries -- and out came the problem.

When I discovered it is no longer possible to obtain those wonderful glass-impregnated hickory ramrods Thompson/Center used to sell -- today's non-impregnated hickory ramrods typically break the first time you use them -- I was again disgusted, but quickly came up with the following fix:

I reassembled the ramrod, wrapped it in inner-tube rubber to protect its finish, locked it in my bench vise, and drilled a tiny hole close enough to the end of the aluminum tubing to penetrate both rod and tip. I used the smallest drill bit I own (probably 1/32nd). Then I rummaged around in my parts cans: I lived in the country then and had a workshop complete with several decades' accumulation of gun parts, none of which, sadly, I have now. I came up with a proper-diameter brass pin, drove it through the hole, trimmed it off, peened it down on both sides and filed the resultant pin-heads just enough to enable the ramrod fit the ramrod pipes.

The ramrod will now function dependably as a cleaning rod. But no thanks to Green Mountain, who despite the unequalled excellence of their barrels themselves are nevertheless selling what is undoubtedly the worst "as-issued" ramrod I have ever encountered. As always -- especially in the realm of black powder -- caveat emptor: buyer beware!

For the past several years, the first thing I do when I get a new TC or GM barel is to replace the ramrod with a solid brass one...it matches the Hawken brass furniture, is a solid one piece rod, no ends to come off, strong as an Ox, and puts more weight out front which helps the sight just hang on the target and improves accuracy...if you still hunt / carry a lot you wouldn't want the extra weight all day, but I hunt from stands 99% of the time so it's not an issue.
I keep the junk ramrods in the garage permanently set up as various cleaning rods for different calibers so I'm home/local if one of them develops a problem, not at the range or out hunting