Hello again, I'm a new flintlock builder/shooter and my kit came with a Colerain barrel that is fine except it shoots pretty far left. I have moved sights as far as I can and it shoots nice groups but the front and rear sights look terrible. I know that should not matter but that stuff drives me crazy. My choices were, are, to change rear sight and center it and cut my sight grove favoring the right side leaving the profile view of the sight in proper place on the barrel flat. This also allows the front sight to come back to center. My other option is to remove barrel and carefully measure and bend the barrel slightly. ANY input or thoughts? Leaving the front and rear sights as far off as they are is NOT an option for me...
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New Colerain barrel shooting left...
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Fred_Dwyer
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Bending a barrel would be the last resort.
Things I would look at: inletting, after shooting a dozen or more rounds pull the barrel and look for high spots or rubbing along the inlet, relieve any high spots.
The tang should be dead square and solid.
Take a small square and check the muzzle for squareness, I wouldn't expect it, but a cant on the muzzle can pitch a ball off to one side or up/down. You didn't farkle the crown did you?
Pull a length of light fishing line and check the barrel for straight, maybe was bent in shipping, it only takes 0.13 inch or so to throw you off 8 inches at 50 yards.
Things I would look at: inletting, after shooting a dozen or more rounds pull the barrel and look for high spots or rubbing along the inlet, relieve any high spots.
The tang should be dead square and solid.
Take a small square and check the muzzle for squareness, I wouldn't expect it, but a cant on the muzzle can pitch a ball off to one side or up/down. You didn't farkle the crown did you?
Pull a length of light fishing line and check the barrel for straight, maybe was bent in shipping, it only takes 0.13 inch or so to throw you off 8 inches at 50 yards.
Ideally the manufacturer should make it good if its defective...years ago I had a new round ball barrel like that from TC, they replaced it no questions...new one was perfect.Gobbletn said:
You bought and paid for a proper quality barrel, and if it is a barrel problem, the manufacturer should make it right.
Suggest you think long and hard about making any changes to the barrel what-so-ever...if you do, you could give the manufacturer something to use if they wanted to side-step a warranty claim.
If it was me, I'd Email the manufacturer right now and get on record that there's a problem...that you're going to check a few other possibilities, but that you may need to send the barrel back.
ohio ramrod
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Bending a barrel is a last reort. In fact I think your barrel has one of two problems. 1. barrel bore is not true to barrel O.D. ( defective barrel ). Or two the inletting is not true and the barrel is actually being bent by the stock. Which can be fixed by relieving the stress points bending the barrel. :idunno: (Remember this is my personal opinion and worth exactly what you paid for it ! ) :idunno:
I agree with the other posts. Contact who you purchased the kit from. Contact Colerain. They make excellent barrels and something is amiss. I would NEVER bend a Colerain barrel as it would possibly void any warranty and Colerain will make it good if the barrel is defective. Remove the barrel and see if there is a problem with the inletting.
OK, I'm probably going to stir things up a bit. Of course, check to see if there are obvious problems first. BUT bending a barrel is NOT a last resort. Quite often a barrel will reveal stresses when bored and profiled. Especially swamped barrels.
I'm currently shooting a custom Getz barrel that I had made for a particular project. Shot 4" low at 25 yards. Having primitive sights, there wasn't enough to file off to get to point of air. As Don Getz says.... you "bend" it straight.
This doesn't mean haphazard bending in the fork of a tree. But done with a good strong bench, blocks and clamps, a properly marked barrel can be bent carefully, with totally predictable, and repeatable results.
I've placed in the top three at our last three clubshoots with the one I was just telling you about. Targets from 25 to 150 yards. Shoots right to point of aim. AND my sights are centered where they are supposed to be.
Good luck
I'm currently shooting a custom Getz barrel that I had made for a particular project. Shot 4" low at 25 yards. Having primitive sights, there wasn't enough to file off to get to point of air. As Don Getz says.... you "bend" it straight.
This doesn't mean haphazard bending in the fork of a tree. But done with a good strong bench, blocks and clamps, a properly marked barrel can be bent carefully, with totally predictable, and repeatable results.
I've placed in the top three at our last three clubshoots with the one I was just telling you about. Targets from 25 to 150 yards. Shoots right to point of aim. AND my sights are centered where they are supposed to be.
Good luck
Fred_Dwyer
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Yeah, that's right bad bedding never makes a gun shoot goofy :bow:
If you have a light weight barrel bedding can effect the accuracy. Don't bend the barrel. Look for any defect in the muzzle end of the barrel. even a tiny defect in the end of the bore at the muzzle can throw off the bullet a lot. How is the group? What do the patches look like? Don't take advise from amateurs. If the barrel is bent [ I doubt it] it should be sent back. If the barrel is rifled you cannot check it for straightness using the string method. Lapping or coning might fix it. I have had barrels do this and after coning they were fine. More info is needed to determine the problem. Bore size,caliber, barrel weight, etc.
Mike Brooks
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I'd bend the barrel. Pretty much an instant permanent fix.
illuveatar
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All this talk about barrel bending sounds alarming to me. I don't have much experience in this field so if you guys really know what you're talking about when you suggest bending a barrel go ahead but I've got a few questions.
How far off to the left is the gun shooting right now ?
Would a bent barrel still produce good groups ?
any chance this is not an artifact of the gun itself but of the shooter ? ?
Fred D said that .13" of bend would move a group by 8" at 50yds, I don't know much about Colerain barrels but could the forearm of the stock really bend a barrel by 1/8th of an inch ? It seems like it would take a lot of torque to bend a steel barrel by that much.
If it's bent and it really is new I would send it back rather than take any chances bending it back the other way.
What if the counter bend doesn't straighten the barrel but instead puts an S-curve in it ?
I started a thread about buying cheap barrels on eBay and several members chided me about skimping on the important part of the gun but this seems like an even worse idea to me. How prevalent is barrel bending ?
How far off to the left is the gun shooting right now ?
Would a bent barrel still produce good groups ?
any chance this is not an artifact of the gun itself but of the shooter ? ?
Fred D said that .13" of bend would move a group by 8" at 50yds, I don't know much about Colerain barrels but could the forearm of the stock really bend a barrel by 1/8th of an inch ? It seems like it would take a lot of torque to bend a steel barrel by that much.
If it's bent and it really is new I would send it back rather than take any chances bending it back the other way.
What if the counter bend doesn't straighten the barrel but instead puts an S-curve in it ?
I started a thread about buying cheap barrels on eBay and several members chided me about skimping on the important part of the gun but this seems like an even worse idea to me. How prevalent is barrel bending ?
Mike Brooks
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Well, I wouldn't take my word for it, I have only built 310 guns in the past 30 years. :wink:
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I was having some problems with mine, it's a lefty and was shooting about 4" off to the left, no matter what the sight settings were. Clamped it down in a rest and it was perfect windage wise. Turned out I had a slight left flinch and the flint was just slow enough to show it to me.
As an aside, If I was to bend a barrel I'd do it very carefully and use a good straight edge and caliper to measure the "slight" bend that you would need.
As an example of how a little pressure of bedding or a slight bend can affect barrel accuracy. I have a Uberti 1876 in 45-75 that was shooting 4' high at 100 yards. When I broke the rifle down I found the magazine tube to be extremely tight. I took about a 1/32" off the end of the tube to relieve the pressure and it brought the POI down to only about 1' high, making a slightly taller front sight got in on target.
As an aside, If I was to bend a barrel I'd do it very carefully and use a good straight edge and caliper to measure the "slight" bend that you would need.
As an example of how a little pressure of bedding or a slight bend can affect barrel accuracy. I have a Uberti 1876 in 45-75 that was shooting 4' high at 100 yards. When I broke the rifle down I found the magazine tube to be extremely tight. I took about a 1/32" off the end of the tube to relieve the pressure and it brought the POI down to only about 1' high, making a slightly taller front sight got in on target.
illuveatar
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Thanks for the links. I've never heard of barrel bending before and frankly it sounded like a disaster waiting to happen. I'm reminded of many cartoons from my childhood in which the barrel of a rifle was bent or tied into a knot or some other such thing.
I guess it's not as dubious of an idea as I originally thought but I don't think I'll be bending any barrels myself anytime soon.
I'd check the barrel by looking down it with a bore light, the interference rings would appear out-of-round if there really were a bend.
Here's a few interesting links in regards to bent barrels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzb94fIa1jc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpvZMDO9qoU
I guess it's not as dubious of an idea as I originally thought but I don't think I'll be bending any barrels myself anytime soon.
I'd check the barrel by looking down it with a bore light, the interference rings would appear out-of-round if there really were a bend.
Here's a few interesting links in regards to bent barrels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzb94fIa1jc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpvZMDO9qoU
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Hey Keith, my barrel is a B weight, .54 cal, 42"... Called Cabin Creek, kit supplier, and he said bend the barrel. I blocked it measured with a caliper and end result was movement of .062" or 1/16". That should bring my group close to center at 25 yds. I'm about 7-8" left consistently. Let my buddy shoot and it was the same. I'll shoot tomorrow and report...
Well, they must have made a new one, as Colerain used to go to a .50 on a B weight & .54 started in a C weight.
Assuming this is a B in .54, that is a VERY narrow waist, and that means if you are in IL & someone breaks wind in CA, your barrel will bow.....
So, ANY wood not correct in the barrel channel will bow it, and any Underlug /pin stress will bow it, no relieve fore & aft of the underlug pin holes could bow it, etc.
IMHO, if there is nothing stressing the barrel, it is bent, bored in a arc, or a incorrect crown at the muzzle. And of course the crown is the first thing to check.
You can check for it being bent with feeler gauges on a flat table, measuring the gap from table to each flat at the same place, each flat to insure they all have the same gap as you rotate it.
As for looking down the bore, one time I took 2 new barrels & had 4 dif guys look down the bores with lights to see which one was bent. 3 of the 4 said they were both bent, one said neither was bent. Actually one was bent of the two & it shot 9" left & 9" low at 25 yards. The barrel was bored in a arc. This usually happens on small bores (when it occurs) as the bit used is very small & easily bowed during drilling if too much pressure is applied or the bit gets dull or etc. Usually doesn't happen on a large bore like a .54, as that is a very stiff bit, but it is possible. My point is most people would not be able to determine a defective alignment from end to end with a light in a bore. It could be done with a laser & precise equipment. and it can be done with piano wire & sound equipment, as I have a friend that does it to line bore blocks on diesel engines & he goes all over the world doing it. However, it is cost prohibitive for this.
Calling the manufacturer is not going to fix the issue at hand, as it is in the rifle. I am sure Colerain will replace it IF they find it defective. However, that doesn't get it back in the rifle & shooting. They will replace the barrel with a new blank if it is defective. I know this because they have replace 4 for me.
So if it is not stress in the rifle causing it, & it is not the crown, then you end up with it bent barrel or arced bore. And you have to decide if you want to send it back & have them check it, or bend it the other way.
I didn't look to see where you are, but if you are close to me,(AL) I have a barrel press & you are welcome to come get it & borrow it & attempt to bend it the other way.
Keith Lisle
Assuming this is a B in .54, that is a VERY narrow waist, and that means if you are in IL & someone breaks wind in CA, your barrel will bow.....
So, ANY wood not correct in the barrel channel will bow it, and any Underlug /pin stress will bow it, no relieve fore & aft of the underlug pin holes could bow it, etc.
IMHO, if there is nothing stressing the barrel, it is bent, bored in a arc, or a incorrect crown at the muzzle. And of course the crown is the first thing to check.
You can check for it being bent with feeler gauges on a flat table, measuring the gap from table to each flat at the same place, each flat to insure they all have the same gap as you rotate it.
As for looking down the bore, one time I took 2 new barrels & had 4 dif guys look down the bores with lights to see which one was bent. 3 of the 4 said they were both bent, one said neither was bent. Actually one was bent of the two & it shot 9" left & 9" low at 25 yards. The barrel was bored in a arc. This usually happens on small bores (when it occurs) as the bit used is very small & easily bowed during drilling if too much pressure is applied or the bit gets dull or etc. Usually doesn't happen on a large bore like a .54, as that is a very stiff bit, but it is possible. My point is most people would not be able to determine a defective alignment from end to end with a light in a bore. It could be done with a laser & precise equipment. and it can be done with piano wire & sound equipment, as I have a friend that does it to line bore blocks on diesel engines & he goes all over the world doing it. However, it is cost prohibitive for this.
Calling the manufacturer is not going to fix the issue at hand, as it is in the rifle. I am sure Colerain will replace it IF they find it defective. However, that doesn't get it back in the rifle & shooting. They will replace the barrel with a new blank if it is defective. I know this because they have replace 4 for me.
So if it is not stress in the rifle causing it, & it is not the crown, then you end up with it bent barrel or arced bore. And you have to decide if you want to send it back & have them check it, or bend it the other way.
I didn't look to see where you are, but if you are close to me,(AL) I have a barrel press & you are welcome to come get it & borrow it & attempt to bend it the other way.
Keith Lisle
I'm so sorry, I have just ordered a new barrel in a .40 that is a B weight. The information on this new gun is stuck in my mind. You are correct this is a C weight... So sorry to muddy the water... I will get my facts correct on future posts.
