New Gun: Am I Doing Something Wrong?

[Splitear]

I recently purchased a flintlock Smooth Rifle from a builder on another forum. When I received the gun, I installed the lock and immediately noticed that the lock would only release to half cock when I thumbed it down. The only way to get the lock to fully release was to remove my thumb after placing it at full cock and engaging the trigger.

Additionally the top jaw screw appeared to be bent, only allowing the screw to turn less than a half turn before binding up. This will not allow me to adjust the top jaw down to secure the flint in the jaws.

When the lock is removed from the gun it seems to function correctly.

I communicated with the builder, and he asked me to ship the gun back so he could repair it. Upon his inspection, he said that it appeard that there was "some crud in the fly, not allowing it to move smoothly." He stated that he fixed the lock and cut the old jaw bolt out and replaced it with a new one.

I recieved the gun today, and all of the issues are still there, including what appears to be the bent top jaw screw. Now I'm questioning if I'm doing something wrong. I'll admit that I'm new to flintlocks, but I just cannot see what I'd be doing wrong to make the same issues recur. Before I contact the builder again, I wanted to have some more experienced eyes take a look at what is happening and tell me if there are actual problems, or if I'm just an idiot. There are a couple of videos below demonstrating the issues I'm experiencing. Thanks in advance!

 

[IanH]

NEVER DRY FIRE A FLINT LOCK LIKE THAT!!! Put a square of wood in the cock jaws after you un-bend the screw and let it strike the closed frizzen to absorb the energy. Letting the cock fall against the plate can and will break things.

First impressions, the cock is loose on the tumbler shaft and the fly does seem to still be binding although it does its job when you dry fired it from full cock. Take the lock off and make sure all the screws are snug on the inside, and and you might need to press the cock on the shaft further with a vise and some sockets and snug the screw. Don't try to use the screw to pull the cock down tight, the screw will twist off before it is tight enough on the tapered shaft.

As for the screw, is it possible it got bent in shipping.....twice? How was it packaged?

If it were me, I would attempt to straighten it but be careful of bending or breaking the cock neck.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

First of all you have two good vids showing issues. The top jaw screw appears to be bent. It is too long and is not working properly. I can't tell what the issue is with the lock releasing from full cock, but again it is not working properly. The fly might even be in backwards. Both are issues the maker did not correct from what I see. On a single trigger that is not a set trigger, you don't even need a fly.
Larry

 

[Collie]

I'd send it back for a refund personally. The maker clearly didn't correct top jaw screw issue and then sent it right back to you. The screw is also too long to be functional from what I can tell. It looks like it will bottom out before it fully tightens down on the flint.

As for the half cock issue, if it's just a single non-set trigger then it might not be a problem. Try to put a small piece of wood in place of the flint and dry fire it with the frizzen closed. The wood is so the metal cock doesn't hit the frizzen. It should function correctly and not stop at half cock. If this has a set trigger, then try doing the same with using the set trigger and see if it still works. Personally, I'd still send it back for a full refund because of these problems, but you can send it back and ask for videos of it working from the maker before they return it to you.

 

[Dave Marsh]

I am a bit confused. You said when you got the smooth rifle you installed the lock. Did it come uninstalled in the box? Did it come uninstalled the 2nd time after he "fixed" it? Just can't imagine how the cock screw got bent both times unless you accidentally did it both times while dry firing. As stated, don't dry fire without a flint or piece of wood in the cock. Do you know the company that made the lock?

 

[hawkeye2]

Dry firing without a flint and the frizzen closed can result in the jaw screw hitting the top of the frizzen and bending. That cock is way too loose! I believe the square hole in the cock is too large, far too large to do a proper repair and it (or the tumbler) should be replaced. If he sent that lock out twice I would be very leery of any of the work on its internals. It almost looks like his fix was to repackage the rifle and send it back to you.

 

[ColonialRifleSmith]

I recently purchased a flintlock Smooth Rifle from a builder on another forum. When I received the gun, I installed the lock and immediately noticed that the lock would only release to half cock when I thumbed it down. The only way to get the lock to fully release was to remove my thumb after placing it at full cock and engaging the trigger.

Additionally the top jaw screw appeared to be bent, only allowing the screw to turn less than a half turn before binding up. This will not allow me to adjust the top jaw down to secure the flint in the jaws.

When the lock is removed from the gun it seems to function correctly.

I communicated with the builder, and he asked me to ship the gun back so he could repair it. Upon his inspection, he said that it appeard that there was "some crud in the fly, not allowing it to move smoothly." He stated that he fixed the lock and cut the old jaw bolt out and replaced it with a new one.

I recieved the gun today, and all of the issues are still there, including what appears to be the bent top jaw screw. Now I'm questioning if I'm doing something wrong. I'll admit that I'm new to flintlocks, but I just cannot see what I'd be doing wrong to make the same issues recur. Before I contact the builder again, I wanted to have some more experienced eyes take a look at what is happening and tell me if there are actual problems, or if I'm just an idiot. There are a couple of videos below demonstrating the issues I'm experiencing. Thanks in advance!

Sorry you're having all these issues with your new rifle. If you send the lock to me, I will fix it for you properly, no charge. Just shipping. Semper Fi.

 

[Splitear]

Duly noted on the dry firing, will not do that again

The gun was shipped in a wooden crate with the lock removed and wrapped in bubble wrap and then included in the crate.

I hate to believe that no work was done on the gun by the builder, he said he had addressed the issues. However the gun exhibits the same issues as it did when I sent it to him. I just want to ensure that my ignorance is not at fault before contacting g him for a refund and shipping it back. At this point it will have made the round trip from west to east coast twice at a little over $100 a pop each time it ships. So far he has covered all shipping costs.

 

[TDM]

Agree with all the above comments and the remedies given. Your lock bolts could be too tight causing the stoppage at half cock. And please don't dry fire with an open frizzen.

 

[Splitear]

Dry firing without a flint and the frizzen closed can result in the jaw screw hitting the top of the frizzen and bending. That cock is way too loose! I believe the square hole in the cock is too large, far too large to do a proper repair and it (or the tumbler) should be replaced. If he sent that lock out twice I would be very leery of any of the work on its internals. It almost looks like his fix was to repackage the rifle and send it back to you.

I have not fired the gun with the frozen closed, despite the ignorance around dry firing, I knew that would not be a good thing for metal on metal contact I’m not always as dumb as I look, just most of the time

 

[TDM]

I have not fired the gun with the frozen closed, despite the ignorance around dry firing, I knew that would not be a good thing for metal on metal contact I’m not always as dumb as I look, just most of the time

Your certainly not the first to do that and you won't be the last either. Not likely to hurt anything doing it a couple of times except if the frizzen is closed the jaw screw could definitely hit the frizzen and bend.

 

[appalichian hunter]

From your videos it looks like a decent gun, from what can be seen of it, I would take up colonial riflesmiths offer and get to shooting.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Dry firing without a flint and the frizzen closed can result in the jaw screw hitting the top of the frizzen and bending. That cock is way too loose! I believe the square hole in the cock is too large, far too large to do a proper repair and it (or the tumbler) should be replaced. If he sent that lock out twice I would be very leery of any of the work on its internals. It almost looks like his fix was to repackage the rifle and send it back to you.

I agree 100% that dry firing without the frizzen being closed is not healthy for the lock. I do fail to see how that can bend the cock screw? Look at the cock when it is down and frizzen is open. It isn't even close to hitting. Inertia?:? I fail to see how that could bend that size of screw. JMO
Larry

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Sorry you're having all these issues with your new rifle. If you send the lock to me, I will fix it for you properly, no charge. Just shipping. Semper Fi.

What a generous offer! The maker really needs to correct this, unless shipping could possibly be part of it. (the cock screw maybe)
Larry

 

[hawkeye2]

I agree 100% that dry firing without the frizzen being closed is not healthy for the lock. I do fail to see how that can bend the cock screw? Look at the cock when it is down and frizzen is open. It isn't even close to hitting. Inertia?:? I fail to see how that could bend that size of screw. JMO
Larry

Dry firing without a flint and the frizzen closed From my first sentence in the post.

No problem with the frizzen open, just when its closed.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

One hammer fall with out the frizzen down and a flint or piece of wood in the jaws will bend the screw the first time every time. YOU are bending the top jaw screw yourself. It appears you need to pull the trigger just a bit farther to get the sear nose to clear the fly. It could be the trigger bar isn't tall enough to raise the sear bar of the lock enough to clear the fly.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

The cocktail is loose on the tumbler too. That is going to get worse. It's a 30 second fix but I don't think I could clearly explain how to fix it by typing.
Also, that barrel is poorly bedded against the breech.

 

[Splitear]

One hammer fall with out the frizzen down and a flint or piece of wood in the jaws will bend the screw the first time every time. YOU are bending the top jaw screw yourself. It appears you need to pull the trigger just a bit farther to get the sear nose to clear the fly. It could be the trigger bar isn't tall enough to raise the sear bar of the lock enough to clear the fly.

I knew I was at least part of the problem, thank you.

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Dry firing without a flint and the frizzen closed From my first sentence in the post.

No problem with the frizzen open, just when its closed.

My bad, the OPs vid showed no flint and open frizzen. I miss read your reply.
Larry

 

[Splitear]

One hammer fall with out the frizzen down and a flint or piece of wood in the jaws will bend the screw the first time every time. YOU are bending the top jaw screw yourself. It appears you need to pull the trigger just a bit farther to get the sear nose to clear the fly. It could be the trigger bar isn't tall enough to raise the sear bar of the lock enough to clear the fly.

Would it bend it without anything in the jaws? I haven’t had any flint or wood in the cock. It has been dry fired maybe 3-4 times (and will not again).