New guy(ish) with 3 new guns, have a few questions as to working up the proper loads

[Sudsy]

I've been shooting the same Traditions Hawken with the same Pyrodex load and the same Lyman .50 caliber Maxi bullet for 20+ years. Now I'm stepping out of my comfort zone and recently picked up a few new toys that I'm looking forward to shooting but haven't yet

I've picked up a few cans of Goex FFG and FFFG and I have a two year old unopened can of Pyrodex.
I've picked up the proper size Lyman molds and poured 100 of each of pure lead balls (mic'ed them after pouring, the diameters are correct)

The three new guns, all of which are never shot and were used strictly as wall hanging decorations, are:

1. An Armsport (Armi Sport ... Armi Chiappa) Kentuckian 45 percussion
What I've read so far is that it shoots well with .440 patched round ball, and .015 (15 thousands) lubed patch
What I don't know is what powder loads I should start with, which powder, and what should be the top limit.



2. An Intercontinental (again, Armi Sport ... Armi Chiappa) Kentuckian Flintlock
What I've read so far is that it shoots well with .350 patched round ball, start with .010 lubed patch and work up to .015 (15 thousands) 50 gr fffg powder.
What I don't know is what powder loads I should start with, which powder, and what should be the top limit.

3. A Replica Arms .44 1847 Walker revolver (most likely made by Armi San Marco) .
What I've read is that it shoots well with #10 cap .454 ball w/lubed wad
45 to 50 grain FFFg (60 grain over time could crush the wedges and stretch (something?)
I just got a delivery today from Durofelt of a sheet of 1/8th inch, 100% wool, hard felt. What I don't know is what diameter should the wads be ?

Looking forward to hitting the range with these either this afternoon or tomorrow (Central Jersey Rifle Pistol)
Really appreciate any guidance

 

[Sudsy]

 

[deermanok]

I have a traditions deerhunter rifle in 45 caliber. I use the .440 ball, a .010 thick cotton patch and 60 grains of 3f Old Ensyford powder. It's a good combination for me. The other guns, I can't say.

 

[Sudsy]

I have a traditions deerhunter rifle in 45 caliber. I use the .440 ball, a .010 thick cotton patch and 60 grains of 3f Old Ensyford powder. It's a good combination for me. The other guns, I can't say.

Would you consider 60 of 3F a top end load ?
Where would you start, 30 grain ?

And if I went to FF from FFF should I raise the amount by 10% to adjust ?

This is all new to me, like I said, I've been shooting the same Pyrodex load, with the same maxi ball bullets, in the same gun for decades. It's all I know - Now I have a lot to catch up on.

 

[deermanok]

Would you consider 60 of 3F a top end load ?
Where would you start, 30 grain ?

And if I went to FF from FFF should I raise the amount by 10% to adjust ?

This is all new to me, like I said, I've been shooting the same Pyrodex load, with the same maxi ball bullets, in the same gun for decades. It's all I know - Now I have a lot to catch up on.

I think that the max load for my traditions is 90 or 100 grains of 3f powder.
You can start low if you want, 30 grains but I think 50 grains will work good for a starting point. I've loaded up my gun with 80 grains of 3f powder but started to lose accuracy with the round ball.
There's a lot of debate about 2f and 3f, use more, less, the same. A general rule of thumb is to use about 10 to 15% less 3f powder than 2f powder. I use 3f powder in all my guns these days.
You'll have to experiment. Some guns like one powder better than another. Same with patches. Try a few different thicknesses. 010 to 018. Best to get dry cotton patches and make your own lube.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I get good accuracy from my 36 caliber (0.350" ball and 0.018" cotton drill patch lubricated with one part water soluble oil and 7 parts water). You will need black powder for your flint lock. The 3fg will work fine as the pan powder. 35 grains (volume measure) of 3fg powder is fine for your 36 as well. It can be quite surprising to some, but 2fg powder can be used in the smaller calibers such as 36. Recently I went to the range with an empty can of 3fg and a full can of 2fg and my 36 caliber rifle. Performance was the same.

 

[ord sgt]

I would start with powder charges that relate to the calibre of the rifles,..45 calibre, 45 grains. 50 calibre 50 grains. This for target shooting at 50 yards.
For the revolver, target load for my Colt .44 is 15 grains FFFg, a lubricated felt wad and a .451 cast roundball.

 

[Sudsy]

Try a few different thicknesses. 010 to 018. Best to get dry cotton patches and make your own lube.

Never shot patched ball before. How is Bore Butter as a patch lube ?
I'm thinking melt it in a double boiler, dip the material, wring it out and cut the patches ??

 

[Sudsy]

For the revolver, target load for my Colt .44 is 15 grains FFFg, a lubricated felt wad and a .451 cast roundball.

15 grains ? That would be like a BB gun in my Walker (the thing is a beast) Plan on staying in the 40 to 50 grain of 3F Goex powder range to protect the wedge and slot. There have been reports of the 60 grain load being too much over time and crushing the wedge and elongating the slot -and I don't need to shoot the horse from under a Mexican cavalryman so I don't need to go with the full load

It's the diameter I need to cut the wad that I'm unsure about
The ball diameter is 454, I'm assuming the wad should be cut to the same - but "Never Assume" right ?

 

[deermanok]

Never shot patched ball before. How is Bore Butter as a patch lube ?
I'm thinking melt it in a double boiler, dip the material, wring it out and cut the patches ??

Patched round ball is pretty much all I shoot.
You can melt the bore butter if you want. Seems like a lot of work though. When I use it, I just smear up a patch with my fingers. I also use good old Crisco for a patch lube. A spit patch works too.

 

[rafterob]

Can't help with the walker but on the rifles start roughly with the caliber of the gun. 45 for the .45 and 40 for the .36. Shoot 5 shot groups. Increase your load 5 grains at a time. Your goal is to get the best group at the highest point of impact relative to your aiming point. My .45 Kentuckian barrel liked 60 grains 3f. My .45 Rice barrel likes 65 grains 3f. Take the time to put the work in to discover the best powder load before you do any sight adjustments. Bore butter is ok as well as any other tallow or grease. What works really well is a little dawn detergent in water. Just enough so you can feel the slippery effect. Cleans as you shoot and you don't get greasy fingers. Got that tip from one of the best shots in our region. I don't shoot any better but don't have to swab nearly as much as I used to.

 

[toot]

Welcome.

 

[Sudsy]

The flintlock is turning out to be a problem, not only is the ramrod the wrong diameter, it's 4" too short
And to make it even more entertaining, the hole and slot are also 4" too short, the proper length ramrod is too long to fit underneath.
Now I have to make a range rod

Made up a strip of lubed patch material last night for the .45 percussion, and a few dozen wads for the Walker
Hope to shoot them both this afternoon
The flintlock will have to wait on a new ramrod

 

[Sidney Smith]

I use bore butter for patch lube. Cut a patch strip, place it and a gob of bore butter in a baggie, toss into the microwave for just long enough to melt the bore bitter, then do the shake and bake to the baggie to distribute the bore bitter onto the patch material. Works great.

 

[Sudsy]

I use bore butter for patch lube. Cut a patch strip, place it and a gob of bore butter in a baggie, toss into the microwave for just long enough to melt the bore bitter, then do the shake and bake to the baggie to distribute the bore bitter onto the patch material. Works great.

I did something very similar.
Melted some bore butter in the microwave and soaked the strips. Wrung out the excess and let them cool.
Worked great

Made a temp ramrod for the flintlock and had some fun with it at the range.
Looks like I have some work in front of me working up an accurate load, as both the flintlock and .45 percussion were all over the place.

 

[yonderin]

The flintlock is turning out to be a problem, not only is the ramrod the wrong diameter, it's 4" too short
And to make it even more entertaining, the hole and slot are also 4" too short, the proper length ramrod is too long to fit underneath.

Easy solution. A 4 inch powder column for a base or a 4 inch over powder wad.

Kidding. Sucks to find that out. Could complicate things if you want to take it hunting.

 

[Sudsy]

The fine folks over at October Country (Gina & Ron?) are making me a brass range rod long enough to use on all of my guns
So I got that going for me