New Kentucky Build

[Henry Bowman]

So, I have long wanted to build a Kentucky rifle. I'm pretty certain that many of my forefathers in Kentucky, Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Ohio carried them during the 1700s and early 1800s. I hunt with a modern muzzleloader but, I hope to someday have a Kentucky rifle that I've built.

I would like any advice on how to get started. I don't really want to buy a kit. I attended a show in Lexington, KY a few years ago where hundreds of vendors had locks, stocks, barrels, etc. I think that's the route I want to take but any advice would be great.

I understand the total length of the Kentucky rifle should not exceed the height of the shooter's chin. Well, I am 6'5" and I'd like a very long Kentucky rifle. Any guidance?

I love curly maple. Any pointers?

I'm not sure how much carving and adornment I want, probably just a touch. What would have been used in Kentucky in, say, the early 1790s (when my family came to KY)? or Pennsylvania and Ohio in 1803 (when my family made the trip when Ohio became a state)?

How do I ensure that I have a good match of lock and barrel?

Can I get an XLT-sized barrel and stock? What are the ballistic implications of the extended barrel?

What is the best approach to making a matching pistol?

I plan to research for awhile before I build. This might take some time because I want to get it right the first time and have a treasure to pass along for generations.

Any help, guidance, or whatever will be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[okawbow]

One of my GGGrandfathers was born in York Co. Pennsylvania in the 1760's. He moved to Kentucky in the 1790's.
I made a York Co. Style Longrifle with wide buttplate and. 48" swamped barrel to reproduce a rifle he may have carried.

Early rifles often had 48" barrels when first made. Many were cut down in later years.

My rifle is .54 cal. And is super accurate for offhand shooting. I have placed well in over the log matches with it also. The barrel was made by Charlie Burton of FCI barrels. Be prepared to wait 6 months to a year for a custom 48" barrel.

Get books like " Recreating the Kentucky Rifle", and " the gunsmith of Greenville Co." Read them several times before you buy your parts and start on the rifle.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum.

I know you said you did not want to build from a kit but my first suggestion would be for you to reconsider.

Although a longrifle can be built from a large piece of dried wood, if you want a rifle with the right proportions, getting the contour of the stock can be a difficult task if you don't have a similar rifle on hand to copy.

You might want to browse thru Pecatonica River's catalog to see if they have anything that interests you.

They are a trustworthy company that offers excellent wood, semi-carved stocks, barrels, locks and hardware at a fair price.

Their pre-formed stocks usually have over 2 1/2" of extra wood on the butt so positioning the butt plates length of pull for a tall person like yourself is no problem.

The rifles made between 1700 and the 1820's cover a very wide range of styles and features.
Little is actually known about the early 1700 rifles but most people feel they would have been similar to the German Jeagers, shorter and less graceful than the later rifles.
Rifles from around 1760 thru 1800 would be slimmer but the butt plate would have a very mild curveature and be quite wide.
The guns become more graceful and thinner around and following 1800.
Almost all of them would be flintlocks and they would have swamped barrels.

When looking thru the catalog in this link, realize there is a seperate section that lists the stock wood and the prices vary with the grade and type.
I've found PR's #3 grade curly maple almost always has a lot of nice curl without the high prices of the fancier grades.
The cost of the wood you choose must be added to the prices they list for each gun kit.
http://www.longrifles-pr.com/stockscomponents.shtml

While I'm talking I need to say, these "kits" are far from the "drop together" kits offered by the major manufacturers.

The only parts that are close to being finished are the lock and set triggers (if you decide to get set triggers).
The rest of the parts, including the stock blank all need a LOT of work laying out locations, inletting parts, reshaping the stock to remove the extra wood it will have, fitting the breech and the ramrod pipes and the butt plate.

You can figure it will take you over 150 hours of your time to finish your rifle, even though you started with a "pre-carved" stock.

Pecatonica River does offer some services such as cutting the dovetails for the sights, installing the breech plug (yes, most barrels do not come with a installed breech plug), installing the underlugs on the barrel for the retaining pins or wedges and installing the butt plate if they know what the length of pull is.

Have fun.

 

[Elnathan]

My first real build (the snap-together kit from CVA wasn't a real build) was from a blank, so it is doable. You would be well advised to find someone around you who can coach through the process, though - as Zonie says, the shaping of these things is pretty subtle and familiarity with modern firearms is a snare and a trap, as 18th century guns aren't shaped the same way.

Advice? Books, books, books. Rifles of Colonial America, in two volumes, and Kindig's Thoughts on the Kentucky Rifle are the two books I'd recommend beyond all others unless you are interested in something very specific or out if the mainstream. I'd strongly advise you to get a copy of RCA now while they are still available. Shumway Publishing still lists them, but they have disappeared from Track of the Wolf's site, which is ominous. I'd also recommend Shumway's collected longrifle articles as a supplement.

They are pricy (as are all decent books in this area) but less so than a rifle. At worst, you can always resell them.

Once you have an idea of what school/style and era appeal to you, you can start looking at other books.

 

[Elnathan]

To answer another question:
If you are looking for a rifle that would be appropriate for the Kentucky-Ohio area 1790-1805, you have a lot of options. A good bet might be a Lancaster school, as they were major producers of rifles at that time (mostly due to the efforts of Jacob Dickert) - the British even copied them to supply to their native allies during the Revolution. There are some subtle changes between a 1780s Lancaster and an 1800 one, though.

 

[Spikebuck]

Henry,

Welcome to the forum!

It might help if we knew what your current wood and metal working skills are. I think it makes some difference on how you approach this if you are already a master furniture maker or gunsmith, where you have a lot of good skills for the task vs someone with little to moderate skills.

Zonie gave you some good advice to think about...I know he was a huge help to me as I took on my first rifle building project.

If you want a 48" barrel, I think it will limit most "off-the-shelf" kits companies sell. But there are companies like Knob Mountain Muzzleloading Knob Mtn Link that can work with you on more special requirements you desire. You can get a custom barrel, then send it to them and they will take care of some of the barrel inlet, ramrod hole, or whatever/how much you want them to do.

A couple of good books were recommended. Read and study as much as you can. I don't know what your book budget might be, and if you're only going to build one gun maybe it's not worth it(never happen! :grin: it's like eating Lay's potato chips) but you might invest in one or both volumes of "Rifles of Colonial America" which gives lots of info and pictures, including a number of measurements from original guns.

More curl adds a little difficulty in working the wood because of all the grain structure. Not a big deal, just my observation. Also, and this is just my opinion, a LOT of curl and exquisite carving sometimes clash. So if you want carving, you may want to have more moderate curl.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[MSW]

good advice from some folks who know what they're doing and have been at it for a while.

i still consider myself pretty much an amateur, but i would recommend that you get yourself a copy of The Gunsmith of Grenville County by Peter Alexander. This can be had through Track of the Wolf - here's a link:
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/321/1/BOOK-GGC

the book will set you back about forty bucks (plus the ever-popular S&H) and this might seem a bit on the steep side, but if you consider the parts you didn't ruin, the time you didn't spend waiting for replacement parts to arrive, and the time you don't spend in purgatory for the bad language you'll use (if you believe in such stuff), the book is well worth the price. It is very comprehensive. Read it over several times and you will get a good feel for the steps and their order.

Remember that a "Kit" from Track is really a collection of parts: not a slot-a-into-tab "B" affair.

good luck with your build!

 

[Larry Akers]

You say you want to "get it right the first time". That is a near impossible goal. After all apprentices spent 7 years, 12 hours a day learning how to get it right. A more attainable goal might be "respectable first effort". I second the recommended books and also suggest you look at and handle as many rifles as you can. It would be invaluable if you could find a local mentor. There will be issues come up that none of the books answer and someone who's been there can help. Good luck with your build and welcome to the hobby--it's addicting. By the way, a man's height has nothing whatsoever to do with barrel length. Choose a length and weight you will be able to hold steady.

Are you related to the Bowman's Station Bowmans? My 5th great grandfather was in the first group of settlers to settle there.

 

[Col. Batguano]

Rice lists a couple of 48" barrels on their web site now. I have no clue as to their availability. Since you're so tall, I'm guessing you need a longer length of pull as well. Something in the order of 14 1/2"-15". A 48" barrel with that LOP will put it at about your Adam's apple, so you may want to go with a 50" barrel to put it to your chin. (But a lot of that depeds on the butt plate shape you choose too. that can make as much as 2" in the overall "ground height".) I think there are a few makers out there that make them, but I don't know any of them. Dave Keck seems to say he does though, so you might give him a call.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Nice! Thank you.

 

[Henry Bowman]

I'll check them out. Thank you for the tips and advice!

 

[Henry Bowman]

Thank you! I'll look into those books.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Cool, thanks. I'm pretty strong in addition to being tall, and I'm already a decent shot. I understand the height should never exceed the owner's chin to allow visibility muzzle during loading. The longer the gun, the better the aim - so long as the shooter can handle the weight and geometry - or so it seems from my experience. I also have many skills that are transferrable to building a firearm so, I want to set my goals high. Of course, one man's excellence is another man's mediocrity. I just want to have something to be proud to say that I made it.

 

[Henry Bowman]

Thanks! That puts me a little ahead of where I thought I'd be this quickly. I need to dig into that a bit. I immediately thought of creating a mock up to see which of those combination might fit me best. Weighted dowel rods and roughed out cheaper stock might get me close. I suppose there isn't much one can do after assembly to modify geometry or weight. I've learned that if a gun does not feel good to me, I won't shoot it well. This gun needs to feel just right. I sure appreciate the technical advice.

 

[Henry Bowman]

WOW! Thanks for the tips, all. I'm going to start looking into the books and web sites and all this weekend.

Anyone know a mentor type in the Cincinnati-Dayton area?

I have a percussion cap rifle hanging over my fireplace that can give me a few ideas but, it's ... well, I don't know what it is really...a wall hanger decoration. Maybe I'll post a picture to see if someone can identify it. I really need to see some real Kentucky rifles up close.

Thanks, again!

You guys are great.

 

[Zonie]

One of the better books that has many multiple view photos of longrifles is George Shumways, "Rifles of Colonial America".
Volume I shows guns that were made in many different counties in Pennsylvania.
Volume II shows several guns from the New England and Southern areas of the country.

These are the books most often referred to when people are discussing styles and features of various long rifles.
IMO, they are well worth the money.

George passed away several years ago but his wife still runs the publishing company and sells the books.
http://www.shumwaypublisher.com/shop/category.aspx?catid=2

For something to look at, here's a photo of several of the guns I've built.
Most of them were bought as Pecatonica River "kits".

Although at first glance they look almost the same, each one is styled after the guns of different Pennsylvania counties.

 

[Henry Bowman]

WOW, those are awesome!

 

[don hepler]

Double Wow :surrender: