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New Shooter/First Flintlock

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sffar

36 Cal.
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
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Hello,
First post on this section. I've been reading it a lot, though. Just bought my first flintlock”“a Southern 50 cal. with a Colerain barrel and L&R Queen Ann lock. It's signed "B. Turner" and I'm told it came from TVM(fg). I've done a fair amount of shooting with modern guns and a couple of caplocks.
My barrel measures .490/.522 at the muzzle. I understand the rifling on these barrels is deep. Could someone help me out with a ball and patch combination?
Also, I've got flints that measure 7/8" by 1" and don't know enough to know if they're good quality. It may be I need 7/8" by 3/4" flints? I can get them to hit at an angle about 40% down the face of the frizzen. Don't know a thing about knapping, either. Not even what tool to use or how to cut at them. Gotten some sparks, but hardly a "shower's worth" of white ones. Replaced the lead flint wrap with a piece of leather. I think the gun's fomer owner”“a caplock man”“had a little difficulty getting it working right. The rifle's practically new.
Thanks,
Sam
 
Hey. Congrats! Wise move to go from those cap guns to a Flintlock. Indeed I think your flint is way too big. I think a 5/8" by 5/8" or a 7/8" by 5/8" may be the way to go. And I suggest you just go and buy a few new ones from TrackOfTheWolf or any of the other fine stores that you have seen mentioned here. I wouldn't try to evaluate a locke's ability to make sparks AND self teach your self knapping at the SAME time and expect to get great reliable from your guns lock. They are cheap; like 1.65 each. Worth it.

In my 50's I like .490 ball and a wonder patch but I'll let the other guys give you the more traditional and/or home made patch approach.

Godo luck and again----great move to go Flintlock!
 
Thanks, Zoar.
The flints I've got are about very nearly as wide as the frizzen. The frizzen's got some scoring across and up high where the former owner”“and me perhaps a little”“had the flints hitting too straight on. But below those marks, and where the flint's supposed to be hitting (I think) the face seems smooth and like it's in good shape.
 
ooops, yea I just checked the Queen Ann L&R Locks and they call for 7/8".
 
That groove diameter at the muzzle you typed here is rediculously large! Are you sure its NOT .512", or even .502" Normally, grooves in barrels, by GM or Colerain, are going to run .010" deep each, for a total depth of .020" over bore diameter. If you add .020" to .490, you should get .510". If you measured the grooves diameter at .512, that would be close enough for a Colerain barrel.

Use a cloth patch like pillow ticking, that measures .018" - .020" thick for patching the .490" ball. Lube the patch the night before to give the lube plenty of time to sink into and fill the entire fabric. I generally will do 10 more patches than I expect to shoot the next day at the range, stacking them together with lube, so that the lube has the whole night to migrate through the cloth.

That should give you a good seal for the RB. In choosing the thickness of your cloth patching, you want to measure the cloth with a micrometer, or caliper, with it compressed. If you buy fabric from a fabric store, expect the cloth to have a substance called " Sizing" in it. This is a starch like compound that is put into fabrics to make the nap compress, and flatten, so that more cloth can be carried in a small space. YOU NEED TO WASH THE SIZING out of the fabric, in your washing machine, before thinking about adding lube. Measure the fabric by "crushing " it enough that you can just barely slide the fabric from the jaws of your micrometer or caliper. You should expect that the fabric will compress to 2/3 to half its thickness, depending on the fabric, when you drive the PRB down the barrel. To seal those deep grooves, so that gas does not escape through the grooves and tear or burn your patching as it goes by, you want the material to be 1.5 times the depth of the groove.

Sometimes, a gun requires an even thicker patch. In your case, since the groove is at least .011" deep, I am recommending the .018" thick patching material to start. But you may have to go to .020" patches to fill those deep grooves.

LUBE: Use a vegetable oil, like olive oil. Or Ballistol, which is mineral oil with additives. Stay away with petroleum based oils. You can also mix a more stable lube by mixing oil with beeswax that you melt. The more wax you use, the stiffer the lube is- like boot seal. The more oil you use, the softer the compound is, like cold cream. Oils alone work very well in cold weather.

In below freezing weather, you might want to add alcohol to the oil you take with you to the field to lube patches. Leave the wax lubes at home. Do not use water based lubes in below freezing temperatures. Its a race to see if the water evaporates before it freezes to your barrel. There are all kinds of lubes used. You can find threads on this issue below on the index page here under Accessories. The lube serves three purposes. It help the fabric seal gases behind it, it both protects the fabric from burning, and protects the bore of the gun from rusting on a hunt. With some deep grooved barrels, that is asking too much of fabric, and a filler or OP wad is used between the powder charge, and the PRB to seal the gases behind the PRB.( Patched Round Ball)

What size flint to use in your lock depends on whose lock is on the gun. And, without knowing the make of the lock, we can only speculate on whether it will spark correctly. There is a simple knapping technique you can use to sharpen the edge of the flint in the lock, and to square the edge to the face of the frizzen. But, you first need to determine the correct length of flint for that lock.

Put the cock at the half cock position, and then measure the distance from the front of the cock screw, between the jaws, to the face of the closed frizzen. Subtract 1/4" to leave room for your flint wrap, and a space between the edge of the mounted flint, and the frizzen. That should give you a ball park indication of the correct size flint you need in that lock.

You need to find someone who shoot flintlocks near you to help you through the learning process. Join the NMLRA. They have a link here. The NMLRA has a list of Local Charter Clubs in every state. That is the quickest way to locate someone, and some place to shoot.

What I can do with you and your " new " gun in a few minutes on the range, showing you what to do correctly, and showing you what is right or wrong about your lock or gun, would take lots of pictures of the gun, here, and lots of ink. We have done it in the past, but its very difficult to advise new shooters by email, or even over the phone. There are just so many potential sources of problems you don't even know exist, or how to find.

Go to Bob Spenser's website, , Black Powder Notebook
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/index.html

and read the articles there on Flintlocks. He has a separate article on Flintlock terminology that will help you communicate with us about any problem you see.

Powder charges:

Start with 50 grains of FFg Black Powder, and raise the powder charge by 5 grain increments, shooting off a bench rest, to find the most accurate group. Begin shooting at short range- 10-25 yds, to make sure you are at least hitting the paper! Then, move back to 50 yards. If you are shooting good small groups( 2-3 inches using open sights) at 50 yards, YOu are at least in the ball park of finding an accurate load for the gun.

Go to Dutch Schoultz's website,
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

And order his "system" for $15.00. Its the best $15.00 you can spend to learn how to produce very small groups with your rifle.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks, Paul. The rifling is indeed very deep. Colerain advertises .016 per side on larger calibers and I'd say it's at least that. Sounds like I need some very thick patching!
It's an L&R Queen Ann lock. I think Zoar's right that the flint's supposed to be 7/8" but i just stuck a smaller one in and it's sparking a little better. I'll take the measurements as you suggest, and also have a look at those links. A guy I know told me the quality of the flint is probably more important than anything else and can cover a lot of other sins.
I'll be heading to the range (Reading, MA) this weekend I hope and I expect there'll be some BP guys there to show me a few things, but I did want to take a good shot at showing up with a rifle that sparks and something like the right ball and patch combination.
 
RC,
7/8"W by 1"L looks like it'd fit good with a not too thick piece of leather. I've got a hunk of dry, crappy old thick belt leather in there now”“I wanted to get rid of the lead wrap that came with the gun. Seemed like it wasn't moving to fast with the lead in the jaws.
 
it don't take too thick of leather to hold it tight,,jus be patient...these flinters are a ball!'I've got the same lock..never had a problem,,excellent lock.. :thumbsup:
 
That don't sound like a good piece of leather for it to be used in the jaws of the lock. You want a thick, but not to thick leather for flint wrap. One that kind of moulds around the flint. Could show you better then I can tell you. :thumbsup: Dilly
 
Glad to hear it's a decent lock”“I'll tell you it's fitted really well, that's for sure. I did remove it, inspected and oiled the insides a bit. I'm going to order some good flints and see if the spark improves, though. I don't believe it's what it should be. Did put a 7/8" flint back in the jaw. As for the leather, I'm on the lookout now. This is just a crappy piece of belt leather I had in my drawer for when I needed a little piece of leather for one thing or another. Probably a little thick, but these flints I have are not so well shaped so maybe that's good.
That Black Powder Notebook mentioned earlier is full of information”“a good website!
 
sffar, I have the same lock in one of my rifles. Mine likes Rich's white chert in 3/4 wide X 7/8 long. They hit about 2/3rds of they way up the frizzen and spark bright and plentiful, no gouging. I usually get 25+ shots before I have to dress the edge. Enjoy your new gun and have fun learning what it likes.

Rick
 
Paul VL is right on the spot with his comment on Dutch Shoultz! He is really a true gentleman, who gladly helps you out if something doesn't work out. The 15 dollars is really well spent! :thumbsup:
 
Thanks, Deaddawg
I'd never heard of white chert, so I'll try a couple of those when I order a variety of flints to try. Thanks for the tip.
Sam
 
I have a Flint smoothbore made by B Turner. He makes a good solid gun with good parts. I think you have a good one.

Many Klatch
 
Sam---

I have found that a couple of applications of Neatsfoot on the leather pieces I use in my flintlocks works really, really, really well to make them softer and more pliable to sit deeper and more securely into the jaws.

Also, I agree although 1"x7/8's" is what TrackOfTheWolf recommends, I have found that sometimes a smaller flint (like 5/8") has worked very well, especially if the leather is a tad thick.
 
Thanks Zoar and Many. I think this is a pretty nicely made gun. I purchased it off the sales area here on the forum. Nothing real fancy, but darn handsome. I like the steel parts and it's a nice piece of wood and the barrel's swamped. I'd say it was priced fairly, too. It really looks new.
Don't think I've got Neets Foot oil, so I'll pick some up The leather does need some softening so it'll compress a bit better. Good stuff to have around.
Seems like the main thing with a flintlock is learning to tune the lock and get it working right. and it takes time to study and play with that a bit”“get the details right.
Hopefully I'll take a few shots this weekend if I can find some ball.
 
You better shoot! weekend time is rare. Use it wisely!!! Make smoke. hahaha
 
So I picked up some Speer .490 ball. Nice and round, but they'll roll down the barrel. Am I more likely to do well with a ball that's a press fit into the bore”“maybe .495, or whatever?
 
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