new time saving way to make shot and powder cartidges combined

[armymedic.2]

so while my other method worked it took so long to make them i was not satisfied. i pondered it all day today while at work and came home and tried my idea. i can not find a logical reason to think it will shoot any differently, and it reduced the time to make them by about 50%

so here it is.

with a longer dowel ( i used a piece of bamboo the averaged .500 for my 62)roll a long tube,with glued seams, around 10 inches long.



The twist the middle and tie with twine. i just did three square knots This eliminates the need to form two seperate tubes, and eliminates the need to form two glue blunt ends, which is pretty time consuming.this separates shot and powder very effectively, even shaking the powder side i could not get any to leak through the twist and tie



Then fill one side with powder and fold the end and glue, the other with shot and fold and glue.



it is not as aesthetically pleasing with the twist, but loading will be simplified and the critters wont care.

tear off folded end of powder, turn powder end down into barrel, and ram the whole thing home, tamping a few times to compress the paper so it acts as a wad and overshot card.

thats it. can make about twenty of these an hour first go around, so i think it will be around 25-30 once i get my method down better.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I have made my share of wierd cartridges over the years but I must admit that's a new one for me.
fun isn't it? :grin:

 

[armymedic.2]

Haha. Yeah its an ugly duckling but boy is it fast. So glad squirrels wont chatter about it

 

[Flintlock58]

Neat idea! Let us know how they pattern.

 

[BCarp]

I've come up with a similar cartridge (paper rolled around a dowl), but instead of the central twist and tie, I insert a wad of the "next size down" bore size. For example, for a 16 gauge cartridge, I use a wad meant for a 20 ga. bore. (For a 12 ga. cartridge, you'd use a 16 ga. wad.) Though the wad is undersized, when combined with the thickness of the cartridge paper, you get a tight enough seal of the bore.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Curious what kind of patterns you will get? I like Carp's idea...

Snow

 

[Britsmoothy]

We call that `nifty` :thumbsup:

B.

 

[roundball]

I've come up with a similar cartridge (paper rolled around a dowl), but instead of the central twist and tie, I insert a wad of the "next size down" bore size. For example, for a 16 gauge cartridge, I use a wad meant for a 20 ga. bore. (For a 12 ga. cartridge, you'd use a 16 ga. wad.) Though the wad is undersized, when combined with the thickness of the cartridge paper, you get a tight enough seal of the bore.

Interesting...regarding the shot charge part of it, how do you load it / use it...left tied like the drawing shows, or does it burst when seated and you use an OS card?

 

[BillinOregon]

Yup, waiting to hear patterning/performance results. Carp, Medic, two seemingly simple solutions, and thanks for sharing.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Yep, that's basically the set-up I learned through Dick Weller back in the late 60's. At the time, he used the loading components available for reloading shotgun shells since all the stuff we have now didn't exist then. The wad is glued into the paper tube as it is rolled. When dry, powder goes in bottom end, shot in top. The bottom was folded, the top was tied with kite string and he used a small paint brush and a pan of melted lube to "paint" the paper from wad to top tie off. To load, you bite off the fold, like a military paper cartridge, dump the powder in the muzzle, slide cartridge down till only the string tie is above muzzle, cut off tie with knife, set over shot card on top and ram her down.

Dick's ball cartridge load was similar, and was basically a military style ball in paper tube like the originals. He tied the paper cartridge off above and below ball, dipped or 'painted' lube over just the ball section and when dry, poured in powder and folded down the tail. In a clean bore, he bit off the end and poured in powder, reversed the cartridge and loaded the ball in first till it just entered the muzzle and tore off all the paper cartridge material and rammed the load down. For any follow up shots, he loaded the paper cartridge like a normal military load, paper end first and rammed the whole thing down. Neat trick. Should add he loaded two ball sizes. First load in clean bore was a .760" in his real LLP Bess with a .775" bore! Follow up shot ball cartridges were all .750" balls...yes, they were tight loads but he seldom needed many (or any) follow up shots. He hunted up to moose with his.

Should also note here, Dick hunted with original guns. His big baby was a LLP Bess, his rifle an original Baker Rifle by John Brown, his 'fowler' was an orignal 10 gauge by William Clark and his moose basher was a New Land Pattern For Light Infantry with rear sight and curled trigger guard...back then you could still buy fine grade originals for less than the National Debt!

Dick was a meticulous shooter and poured his powder through a multi-screen box to separate grain sizes and allow the powder dust to blow away. He also laboriously filed off the ball sprues for more accurate projectiles. When bears were involved, he used a loading block with patched ball for quick, accurate reloads...he left nothing to chance. Never knew his actual shot load for the Clark original fowling piece but have a nice picture of a smiling Dick Weller holding up a Snow Goose...obviously, it worked!

 

[BCarp]

I've come up with a similar cartridge (paper rolled around a dowl), but instead of the central twist and tie, I insert a wad of the "next size down" bore size. For example, for a 16 gauge cartridge, I use a wad meant for a 20 ga. bore. (For a 12 ga. cartridge, you'd use a 16 ga. wad.) Though the wad is undersized, when combined with the thickness of the cartridge paper, you get a tight enough seal of the bore.

Interesting...regarding the shot charge part of it, how do you load it / use it...left tied like the drawing shows, or does it burst when seated and you use an OS card?

I just tear off the "tail" end, dump the powder in, sort of ball up the excess paper under the wad, and ram it all down (gently!)as is. No need for an OS card. Pretty much performs comparably to loading all the usual components separately. Next time I shoot some patterns will post pics....

 

[Wes/Tex]

Oh yeah, try it with and without over shot card...see which your gun does best with. You can crank out some home made ones out of milk carton and other things if you don't have any one hand.

 

[armymedic.2]

Ill be checking pattern sometime this week. Should be good but u never know which variable will say "no"

 

[paulab]

I tried making just a shot cartridge using 3 wraps of newsprint around a properly sized wooden dowel. The first 3 shots on patterning paper showed a very nice improvement of pattern. The next 2 shots never opened up and went through the paper as a slug. The last shot patterned as well as the first 3. My next experiment is with only 2 wraps around the dowel. I was pretty surprised that newsprint would hold up to the trip down the barrel so much intact. [10 ga. 90 gr. FF 1 3/4 oz. #6 shot] cheers Paul
P.S. make sure to test your patterns at least a half dozen times before totally trusting your load.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I had a similar experience so I put a over shot card on top and folded a tear-off tail like a civil war cartridge.....problem solved

 

[armymedic.2]

on the two thicknesses of newsprint i fired about 15 shots so far all with great success.

these new tie in the middle cartridges are three thicknesses, and im hoping the open but protect the bore from leading a little as well. if the snow ever stops today i am going to pattern them on some squirrels :}

 

[armymedic.2]

Update:

These carttridges pattern pretty so so

No real concentraion in the center, but no donut hole either

They are pretty ideal for large soft skinned flying birds that only need a bb or two. But for squirrel these would be a bad choice. Next time i go out i will try them with a wad underneath and see if the tightens it up at all