New to Flintlocks, having a minor issue

[AZbpBurner]

Not sure what the Expert's findings were in the placement of powder in the pan, but I've concluded that powder dispensed from my Ampco 4F dispenser, placed in the pan at the far end away from the flash hole gives noticeably quicker ignition every time.

 

[Bbtech]

One other thing that you may already know but the Lyman has a "powder chamber" that is smaller than the bore. On my .50 I use a .36 caliber brush with some steel wool wrapped around it to make sure I get the chamber clean. It fits snug but hopefully will never become lodged in the breech.

 

[OldJoe212]

Here's another tip. Put in only enough priming powder to be level with the touch-hole. You want the flash to burn across the top of the powder into the t-h. Also, after priming the pan, I always thump the opposite side from the lock with my fist. Just hard enough to shake some powder into the hole.
If that doesn’t do it for you, Go with re-drilling the t-h 1/64th bigger. Good luck.

 

[Dr5x]

If you are using a TC Rifle there is a very good chance that you have a patent breech and that alcohol is getting to where a dry patch can't reach and your powder charge is getting wet down and is reluctant to fire from the Flash in your pan.
Dutch

 

[Larry Pletcher]

Since the '80s when I first timed a flintlock, the most obvious lesson I learned was that human senses are terrible tools to study flint ignition. In 2009 I did an article for Muzzle Blasts testing the vent location and the placement of priming powder in the pan. During one of the tests, I timed 30 trials with the priming against the barrel and 30 trials with the priming banked away from the vent. Times were measured to the nearest.001 second, and the trials averaged. The averages are as follows:

Banked away -----.043 sec.
Against barrel---.036 sec.

In additional tests (of 20 trials) where the variable was the height of the vent, the results were similar:

High vent:
Banked away-----.048
against barrel--.037

Low vent:
Banked away-----.046
Against barrel--.038

Percentages vary with the test, but banking prime away from the vent slowed ignition time on the order of 16-20% depending on vent location. In none of the tests were the averages faster by banking away. The complete test is in Muzzle Blasts March 2009 and on my web site at:
Link

Regards,
Pletch

 

[Black Jack]

Fefore you get all spendy and buy some glitzy alphabet-named touch hole liner, simply remove your factory liner, and drill it out to .067" with a #51 drillbit. 1/16" should work if you don't have a number set.

Not really that "spendy" at $5 and change, and is a quick fix. All good information to know, though.

 

[Arrowstorm]

I'd recommend using FFFFG as a primer, getting a larger touch-hole liner and using pillowticking patches that you lightly chew in your mouth while you load your shot.

With pillowticking/spit combo, I find I almost never have a need to swab the bore, as the pillowticking cleans it out and I rarely have a failed ignition.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Yep, it's called a Patent Breech. Lyman goes to no effort to even mention it, but whether my 35 year old Lyman Cap Rifle, or my newest .54 flintlock, or any of the others, they all have it.

I don't consider the Patent Breech to be any trouble, and normal cleaning with hot soapy water, rinse with boiling water, and spraydown with WD-40, and it's clean. If you need to stick anything into the patent breech, brushes and steelwool are completely unnecessary; a slotted rod tip for .223 bore with a large patch centered in it works just fine and poses no risk of getting stuck.

 

[abstange]

Thanks for all of the ideas. I think my plan is to start by widening the flash hole to 1/16" and work up from there. If I mess it up I can always get a better vent liner. I also plan on cleaning it more between shots. I found another article on this forum explaining what to do. It seems a little excessive, but if it works who am I to question?

 

[MSW]

I think you're headed in the right direction ... each rifle will have its own quirks, and after a while you get used to them in the same way you get used to the controls on your old car... as if your hand just knows where the radio dial is, and you can find the light switch without looking ...

keep plugging away at it and the rifle will eventually teach you the way ...

make good smoke!

 

[don hepler]

Like I said earlier learn to "feel" the grains of powder thru the touch hole with the pick. If you can feel the grains, then you know you're clear. I put a grain or two in the touch hole, then level the rest below the touch hole. People at the range are amazed when that gun fires, with no delay.

 

[AZbpBurner]

Like I said earlier learn to "feel" the grains of powder thru the touch hole with the pick. If you can feel the grains, then you know you're clear. I put a grain or two in the touch hole, then level the rest below the touch hole. People at the range are amazed when that gun fires, with no delay.

And firing like that, with no delay, is the essence of precision flintlock marksmanship.

I was firing my .54 lefthanded flint Deerstalker. The cap rifle was in the truck behind the seat.

Another shooter a few benches down was showing some 'hot babes' (ok, his wife, college age daughter and daughters' friend) how it was done. He had a nice .50 cal cap rifle, and was showing them how to load and fire. He told them all about how HIS caplock was far superior to the flintlock "that other guy over there" was shooting, since the flintlock has that annoying whoosh ... then ... boom hesitation (you see it in the old Daniel Boone TV series).

My amplified earmuffs often pick up such conversation, so I wandered over to see how he was doing - the gun was nice, the girls attentive and apparently genuinely interested, but his groups were all over the place. I commented on his targets, and got the stink eye + "and I suppose you can do better with THAT?" I showed him my target ...

My group was a gaping raggedy hole in the center of the target.

His problem was that someone told him to follow the instruction booklet loads, which were just the Maximum loads listed. I told him to try the lighter charge that works so well in my .50 cal, and he immediately looked like a hero.

The country-raised, corn fed Iowa college friend wandered over and wanted to know more about flintlocks, and in no time she was outshooting everyone. I hate it when they do that with MY stuff.

Kinda acted like she wanted to come home with me to see how BP rifles were cleaned, but that would be kinda complicated - I'd have to feed her, and clear out a spot in the garage to keep her. I'm too old for that kind of stuff anymore.

Besides, I don't think Matt-the-Cat would understand...

 

[abstange]

I opened up my vent hole a bit but only had time to shoot one round since. Now it appears I am having a different issue I assume is unrelated. I shot a target at about 50 yardsand had over 3 feet of drop. I find it hard to believe my sights are that far off and I am scared of what kind of drop I would see at 100 yards. I have been shooting 60-70 grains of FFFG goex powder. Is it possible I am not loading enough? Or could I be having another issue. Early on in my shooting I almost had it sighted in at 100 yards, but my sights were loose and had to be modified (I added a little bit of solder to the bottoms to make a snug fit). I don't remember experiencing this much drop then and other than the sights the only difference was that I was using FFFG instead of FFFFG powder for my priming pan.

 

[Len Graves]

If I am correct you said you fired only one round with your altered vent. If that is so I would fire at least three more to make sure you didn't have some malfunction (such as not enough powder, all the powder didn't burn, a short start,Etc.) three feet at fifty yds. Doesn't seem like a sight problem if you were sighted in prior to that round. Just my thoughts. good luck with your problem.

 

[don hepler]

Hardly, enough information to make a response. One shot, tells me very little, as a flinch can cause that. Drilling a touch hole, "out a bit", also tells me very little. Exactly, what size is the touch hole, now? Changing the powder charge, changing the sights, too much going on, to make any kind of determination. I suggest, you go back to range, and start over.

 

[abstange]

I increased it to 5/64" and only had time for the one shot. I plan on taking it to a range when I get a chance and trying a few more things. I just thought I would see if there was anything obvious I was doing wrong before then. Thanks for the responses.

 

[Old40Rod]

IMHO... ditch the wonderlube patches. If you are just shooting targets, just dampen patches lightly with a bit of windex, 409 or something similar. My GPR gunks up horribly using any wonderlube/butter lube patches whether pre-lubed or hand lubed.

 

[Valley Forge]

Yes, yes, and yes

I have a left hand Lyman GPR, 50 cal and I could get about 7 shots off and then lots and lots of flash in the pan.

I did buy the RMC vent liner, but unlike the folks who were saved by that step, I still had trouble, so I took that RMC liner and DRILLED it as described herein (see posts above, but essentially, either 1/16th inch or 5/64 inch will work) and dang it, the thing fires every dang time now. You can probably skip the step of buying the RMC liner, but honestly, I like having extra/spare parts and before I go DRILLING a factory part, I like to be able to go back to the way it was before I messed with it, so the RMC liner was a good part to work on while the original liner sat, quietly and safely, on the shelf of my workshop.

But anyway, yeah, DRILL. I don't know why they don't just sell them with the right size diameter of vent hole in the first dang place.

 

[Valley Forge]

I also find that FFFFg powder goes a long way and does not cost much. Life is short. Too short to worry about spending a few more grains of FFFFg when I shoot. So, I use about 6 grains of pan powder. And, I go right ahead and get it right near, sometimes up against the vent hole. And, just for good measure and to show you that free advice is all biased by our own experiences, I find that picking the vent hole AFTER loading the main charge ("feeling" the grains of the main charge) positively SCREWS up the firing, dang near every time. I pick the vent hole with an alcohol wiped serrated vent pick (not one of those small needle-thingies) after each shot. Then after cleaning the bore, I load the next charge and ball.

 

[abstange]

So I know it has been a really long time since I last posted on this, but I've had a busy year. I was finally able to get out to a range to shoot my flintlock again and I have to say, it was amazing. Prior to going out again I was able to figure out why my shot last December was so long. I was about 20 grains of powder lighter than I had been when shooting at when I was shooting at the 100 yard targets. For some reason I got it in my head that the maximum charge was 80 grains and not 100 grains. So I went out yesterday armed with the knowledge that was given to me on this forum and made a few shots. I was pretty much spot on at 50 yards and I only had one hangfire which I later realized was caused by me not charging the pan properly. My rifle seems to fire better when I evenly distribute the powder and I had it banked away from the flash hole. I was able to make about 10-15 shots from the rifle with no major issues. My groups weren't the best, but I just need practice. And I haven't shot a rifle in over six months. I think I will look into the spit swabbed pillow-ticking patches after the wonderlube patches I have are out. I was getting some tight loads after shooting a few shots. I'll see if that does any better for me. I did want to thank everyone for their input. I couldn't have figured it out without all of you! Thanks!