Newbie with a Bess

[Spartan24]

Here's a little background on me:
So I have always been interested in traditional black powder. I am definitely a modern shooter (ARs, Glocks, 10/22s, etc.) with no BP experience. I have not even fired a BP gun. I did work for a large outdoor store in the gun dept. I always hated seeing people come in and buy the muzzleloaders for hunting that were inline and etc. They would even put scopes on them! To me, that was defeating the purpose of the muzzleloading hunting season. I believe the idea was to make it a more traditional hunt, not some modern abomination. They might as well have been out there with a single shot .270! We had a few traditional type BP guns that we bought and sold, both new and used. I always liked the look and the feel. I almost pulled the trigger on an Armi-sport 1861 Springfield repro but passed on it due to money shortages (I didn't make a lot of money). To this day I wish it would have followed me home. But fast forward a few years and I am still an avid modern firearms shooter. In fact I am furthering my education by starting to take classes for both pistol and rifle. The rifle course that has me particularly fired me up is Appleseed. If you don't know what Appleseed is, it would really be worth your time to swing over to the Appleseed Project. I am sure there is one near you and is a great event for family and friends, from basic to advanced, and young and old. Everyone can learn something at an Appleseed!
Where I am now:
I sold one of my ARs and I bought a used Pedersoli Brown Bess:

My idea was that I could learn about BP and be a living history exhibit at my local Appleseed shoots! What you see in the pictures is what I got. I feel a little over my head, because I don't know anything about this! I have gained a lot of knowledge from lurking on here the last couple weeks, but still I do not even grasp the finer points of BP shooting. Now I have a plan, but it needs to be done in stages.
Stage 1 - What do I need to shoot, clean, and maintain this Bess?
Stage 2 - I want to dress and look like someone who would have stood on Lexington Green on April 19, 1775, when I show up at my Appleseed shoots. I live in Nevada so I won't be joining a unit anytime soon, but I would like to look the part. My fiance has offered to sew up some clothes if given patterns. Any help with hat would be greatly appreciated. Two things: I am almost sure none of the militia carried the Bess (but it is important to the period and the history that is taught at Appleseed) and I know there is a forum for the clothes, but just putting it out there looking for help!
Stage 3 - Move into other BP guns and personas. I did my senior paper in college on the Lewis and Calrk expedition. I also grew up in Great Falls, MT. So I would like to branch out into other areas of BP shooting with appropriate personas. I want to hunt in period clothes in a traditional manner!

So can you all excuse my newbness and help me with my Bess?

 

[David W.]

Welcome to the forum and to the dark side!

I don't own a bess, but would like to and plan to before I get too old.

You have a pretty good shootin iron! You can use both round ball or shot, so it makes it very versitile. Max range accuracy with a smoothe bore round ball is around 50 yards, but we have some yahoo's here that claim they can shoot 75 yards. (Just joking Bess owners)!

To start out, you ned FFg for th main charge and FFFFg for the prime. Rich Peirce or English hand knapped flints are the best to use. Rich's are cheaper and some like them better. He has been out of production, but is scheduled to start back soon. He is a member of this forum.

You will also need to learn to clean it properly. Warm water with a couple drops of Dawn, followed by a LIGHT coat of oil such as Rem Oil or Ballistol.

I would start with a charge of 60 gr FFg if you are shooting a round ball and patch. Pillow ticking makes good patching. Dixie Gun Works Old Zip makes some really good patch lube. Don't over charge the priming pan. About 3~4 gr FFFFg is most likely all you will need.

More information will follow by others, and some of the Bess owners can direct you better than I can.

BTW...I like your mind set on BP guns.

 

[BigDeutscher]

Lots of good info in the Smoothbore section of this forum
Lots of stuff on the Bess
Deutsch

 

[sffar]

Congrats on the Bess. Don't own one, myself, but wish I did. I also like shooting modern rifles, but the BP bug got me a couple of years ago. I love the history, simplicity and tradition in it, as well as the beauty of the firearms. All the reloading and shooting done at once is very cool. Cleaning is sort of a hassle, but easier with a smoothbore than a rifle. I learned a lot reading threads here on the forums. I once found some YouTube videos of people shooting/reloading the Bess that were interesting, and you might find pretty easily. I think the guy in the video”“dressed like a British regular”“was getting off three or four shots a minute.
Sam

 

[buford87]

Welcome to the forum . I would like to say whenever you shoot patched round balls AKA PRB always use 100% cotton material for patching any cloth with synthetic fibers will melt in the bore and be much harder to clean out than is nessacary . Also don't feel like you always have to shoot the heaviest loads all the time , when you're shooting for fun make the shooting fun. Good luck.....................watch yer top knot................

 

[ebiggs1]

I am not a re-enactor but I believe the way the Bess was used was not with a lubed cotton patch but with hand made paper cartridges. It was loaded somewhat like this:


Bite the cartridge with the bullet and powder inside with your mouth.
Push the frizzen forward to reveal the pan and pour a small amount of gunpowder into the flash pan.
Snap the frizzen back to the position covering the flash pan.
Hold the musket vertically so that the muzzle is up.
Pour the remaining powder down the barrel.
Dump the bullet down the barrel.
Push the cartridge paper into the barrel (used as wadding)
Remove ramrod from hoops under the barrel and use to push wadding and bullet down the barrel. Firmly against the powder.
Replace the ramrod.
Hold musket in firing position with the butt against your shoulder.
Pull back the cock.
Aim and pull the trigger.


Sounds like a good deal of fun to me. Oh, and welcome to the forum!

 

[Zonie]

While ebiggs description of loading is quite correct I must mention that in the interest of safety the pan should be left unprimed during the loading operation.

When loading, leave the frizzen/pan cover open and the cock (hammer) down until after the main powder charge and ball is rammed down the bore.
Then, raise the cock to half-cock, fill the pan about 3/4 full and close the frizzen/pan cover.

When ready to shoot, raise the cock to the full cocked position and fire.

Welcome to the Forum Spartan24. I know we have a lot of information here to help you with your plan.

First off allow me to mention that the Militia did have Brown Besses. The reason the British marched from Boston to Concord/Lexington was to confiscate the British weapons the townspeople were stockpiling there. Needless to say, the common people collected a goodly number of Besses after the British were driven back to Boston. That said, you do not have to dress like one of the British to be armed with a Bess.

I'm sure you've read it before but it cannot be overemphasized that you MUST use REAL black powder in your Bess, both for the main charge and for priming the pan. The synthetic black powders will not work well or at all in your flintlock.

The Bess was a military gun that was designed for using 2Fg powder for both the main powder charge and for priming the pan so don't worry about buying 4F powder.

Again, Welcome to you and have fun.

 

[jethro224]

I sold the firstone of my ARs

There, I fixed that for ya. :haha:
Now that the bug has bit, all you need is a good whiff of burnt powder and you'll be hooked solid. Next thing you know you're selling off the CF guns to finance your muzzleloader habit...

Welcome to the Forum. :hatsoff:

That's a nice looking Bess you got. I love mine. It's a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

 

[Spartan24]

Thank you everyone for the replies! I really appreciate it!
Here we go:
1) I see powder types mentioned: 2fg vs. 4fg. Real black powder is a must. Would it be wise to get 3fg for both barrel and pan?
2) I know its a .75 cal, but the only balls I could find are the .735. Will they work?
3) Should I get my own mould and start casting balls?
4) Where is a really good place to get my supplies?
5) Still wondering about cleaning. Once I get home from the range, how do I do and with what? I know BP is highly corrosive.

 

[David W.]

Thank you everyone for the replies! I really appreciate it!
Here we go:
1) I see powder types mentioned: 2fg vs. 4fg. Real black powder is a must. Would it be wise to get 3fg for both barrel and pan?
2) I know its a .75 cal, but the only balls I could find are the .735. Will they work?
3) Should I get my own mould and start casting balls?
4) Where is a really good place to get my supplies?
5) Still wondering about cleaning. Once I get home from the range, how do I do and with what? I know BP is highly corrosive.

FFFg is a little too fine for the bore in a .75 cal. in my opinion. I would use FFg and start with 60 gr BP. For the prime, you CAN use FFg, but you may find a delay every now and then. FFFg or FFFFg is better for the prime.

To clean, place a tooth pick in the touch hole and run warm water with a few drops of liquid soap down the bore. Use a patch on a jag and run it back and forth. Repeat until the patches come out clean. Dry the bore with another patch and oil lightly.

Precast balls can get expensive if you shoot it a lot. In that case, I would consider purchasing a Lee or Lyman mould and casting your own.

Places to purchase supplies: Track of The Wolf, Dixie Gun Works, Mountain State Muzzleloader Supplies, October Country.

 

[Zonie]

I am not a shooter of smoothbores and as was mentioned originally the guns were loaded with a somewhat undersized ball from a paper cartridge and the paper was rammed down on top of the ball to hold it in place. That is also why they had to rely on volley firing rather than aiming. With the ball bouncing down the bore on its way to the target, as you can imagine, accuracy was very poor.

Anyway, for some fairly good accuracy use the .735 diameter balls along with a .015 thick piece of pure cotton cloth to serve as a patch. Lubricate this with vegetable oil/olive oil or a ready made patch lube like Bore Butter.

As you will notice .735 + two times .015 (the patch ends up on both sides of the ball as it is rammed down the bore) = .765.

The larger ball + patch + patch size will compress somewhat when it is forced into the muzzle and this "force fit" will hold it in place.

Not only that but because the ball/patch now actually fits the bore the accuracy may surprise you.

 

[jethro224]

1. Your gun may be different but 3F just squirts right out of the touchhole on my Bess. I use 2F for both main and prime for the convenience of one horn. It works well for me. Finer prime MAY give you a little faster ignition.

2. I use .715 balls with a .017 ticking patch. They are pretty accurate and I can thumb start them. The .735s in a .015 patch may be a bit tight. After a couple of fouling shots some guys I know use a .735 bare ball in their Bess. Try some .010 patches too. You'll find a combo your gun likes.

3. Yes! Besses use big balls and big balls use up lots of lead. You'll save a bunch of $$$. Wheel weights work fine in smoothbores.

4. Check the member resources section of the forum. Long list of suppliers there.

5. Clean with soap and water. Mostly water. :thumbsup:
Again, your gun may be different, but the touch hole on my Bess is Huge! and a regular toothpick will not plug it. Locust tree thorns will tho.

 

[bob4st]

...Congrats!!... I love the Bess... It throws a serious hunk of lead... and if the shot fails to knock em over, the shock & awe likely will... :thumbsup:

 

[ken.clements]

Congrats on joining the "club" I wish you lots of fun.
Owning quite a few Pedersoli's I can tell you about them rather than the load data...you'll get much of that from the others.
When you clean the rifle for the first time you'll need to be carefull with the soapy water. The Satin finish on the rifle is "purty" but rusts very easy (don't believe me, take the barrel out and look at the underside).
I use soapy water, bronze brush, WD 40 to oil the rifle AFTER it has dryed. After cleaning I store the Rifle's muzzle down untill it is dry, oil it inside and out, and store it muzzle down for one day. Let the excess oil drip out.
To start out shooting you could call a seller of Pedersoli (info in internet)and ask them for Info. Pedersoli has the balls and patches for the rifle you need ready made. They also have the moulds if you decide to cast yourself. This is the cheapest way to begin. You get a "feel" for the rifle with the load Pedersoli recommends for the first shoots and if you decide to continue you can expierement from there.Pedersoli does compete with their rifles in world championships.Its just not a lot of hocky pocky to sell more.

 

[Many Klatch]

Here is a long answer to your question. I have been shooting smoothbores and my Pedersoli Bess Carbine for over 20 years.

1) Just use 2F powder for main charge and priming. The lock is big enough that it will go off fast with the 2F. 3F tends to squirt out the touchhole and won't add anything to the accuracy. 4F in the pan will work great but then you have to carry a second horn. I like being able to prime out of my main horn.

2) I use a .715 ball and .010 spit patching over 90 grains of 2F. I have shot one hole groups at 25 yards and I can ring a 36" gong 3 out of 5 times at 100 yards. My Bess has been somewhat modified and I have had a lot of practice, you probably won't approach that level of accuracy for a while. But you should be able to get 1-1/2" groups at 25 yards regularly. For a starter I recommend that you just learn to shoot safely and learn to handle the recoil and the flash in the face. Dry firing with a wooden flint in the cock is a good way to get used to your new gun.

3) Cleaning. I use soap and water. If the touch hole is small enough pound 1/2 of a toothpick into it for a plug. My touch hole is too big for a toothpick so I have to carve one each time I clean the gun. Then pour in a mix of hot water and Spic and Span all the way to the muzzle. Then tip the gun up and pour out the black water. Run a patch down and repeat. Patches can be old sweatshirts, doubled up old T-shirts, old towels. I also find that green scrubby pads and steel wool work too, it's a smoothbore, you don't have to worry about the rifling. After it is clean and the patches come out clean pull the plug and run a couple of dry patches down the barrel. I oil mine with a mix of 1/2 kerosene and 1/2 2 stroke motor oil.

The lock needs to be washed as well, I just dump mine into a bucket of hot soapy water, swish it around a few times and then rinse it off under the tap. Blow it dry and oil it. An old tooth brush will help get into the nooks and crannies.

4) Clean and oil the outside of the barrel then you are done.

The Bess was designed by the best to be a reliable battle weapon, it was used for over 100 years by some of the best troops in the world fighting all over the world. It is simple, robust, reasonably accurate and dependable. It was never meant to be a target rifle.

Regarding your historic outfit. I would recommend a simple knee breeches, long stockings, linen shirt, vest, and hat. Shoes can be buckle or tie. For years I wore US Army low quarters, with the leather eyelets popped out. The hat should probably be a round black wool hat, tricorns were worn by either the military or the wealthy and you are portraying an everyman that is defending his home. The shirt is easy to make, I make several a year for my own use. I recommend Beth Gilgun's book, Tidings from the 18th Century for a good basic primer on period clothing. Breeches are a PITA so I recommend buying those. There are a number of good sutlers on the internet I recommend James Townsend and Sons as a good place to start http://www.jas-townsend.com/index.php

Many Klatch

 

[Doug R.]

Hello Spartan,
Your Pedersoli Bess is a replica of a British Brown Bess Second Model, which would not have been found in use by the militia on the morning of April 19, 1776. The British regulars may have had some of these when they attacked Lexington & Concord and it is possible that a militia member may have acquired one as a battlefield prize after the encounter on Battle Road. It is also possible (and likely) that a militia member could have also obtained one as a battlefield prize during or after the battles of Bunker Hill and later at Saratoga. But as far as a militia member having one on Lexington Green or later at North Bridge is not likely.

 

[Many Klatch]

For general reenacting, the Pedersoli Bess is generally acceptable. Full blown exact copies will cost several times more than a Pedersoli. As an introductory firearm the Pedersoli is OK. I carried my Bess Carbine at the 250th reenactment of the Battle at Carillon and did not catch any grief from organizers.

I have been told by experts that my Pedersoli Bess is inaccurate because all "Carbines" were .65 caliber. Yet there is a Bess Carbine in .75 caliber in the museum at Kings Mountain.

Many Klatch

 

[David W.]

Good advise here, but I don't see the need for exotic cleaning and lubing concotions. I use Ballistol (after cleaning), which is mostly mineral oil, mixed with other biodegradable ingredients, but I do not consider that to be exotic. For the cleaning itself, warm water wit a small amount of soap cleans the fouling with no problem. Even just plain old water will work, but the soap breaks the waters surface tension.

There is also no need to saturate the bore with oil so much that it will run out if the bore is not placed in a "down" position. Once a LIGHT film has coated the metal surface, it is closed off from oxygen and will not oxydize. If oil is coated over rust, it will continue to rust.

While not owning a smooth bore, I can still see that fouling will make subsequent shots increasingly harder to load. If going to the range, you may consider the one of following to swab between shots, alcohol (91% isopropyl), windex with vinegar (not ammonia), or Ballistol.

 

[BillinOregon]

Spartan: Welcome, and you're getting some great advice here. I recommend you spend a few bucks on a copy of "Sketchbook '76," which has offers all kinds of detailed inspiration on managing your Bess and collecting your kit.
When I had a Miroku Bess, I made my "cartridges" based on the instruction in the sketchbook. I made a tube of brown grocery bag paper and tied a .715 ball in the nose both in front and behind it with cotton string. Then I dipped the nose in melted beeswax lube. Once dry, I added my charge of FFg (about 100 grains)into back end of the paper tube and twisted it closed.
In use, you tear off the tail of the cartridge, pour most of the powder down the barrel, seat the ball in the paper over the charge and then sprinkle the dab of FFg you have saved in the torn-off tail of the cartridge into the pan for your prime. With a good, clean flint and frizzen and a proper size touchhole, that FFg works great as a primer.

Oh, and Spartan, it does my heart good to hear a fellow dissing inlines ...

:wink:

 

[David W.]

For general reenacting, the Pedersoli Bess is generally acceptable. Full blown exact copies will cost several times more than a Pedersoli. As an introductory firearm the Pedersoli is OK. I carried my Bess Carbine at the 250th reenactment of the Battle at Carillon and did not catch any grief from organizers.

I have been told by experts that my Pedersoli Bess is inaccurate because all "Carbines" were .65 caliber. Yet there is a Bess Carbine in .75 caliber in the museum at Kings Mountain.

Many Klatch

.65 cal? I thought they were .75 cal. :hmm: Just asking because I really don't know.