Need to tighten at 50, before going for tighter at 75
You may need to run a .535 ball instead of .530, if it will slip into the bore
You may need to run a .535 ball instead of .530, if it will slip into the bore
Next move to gain accuracy
- Thread starter mrfritz44
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I would go back to basics and start with 60 grains of powder, shoot a group, increase by 5 grains, shoot a group. Repeat until the group size comes in where you want it. If it starts opening up you've reached your max accuracy load.
I may give that a try too, but it's just odd that an entire group shifts based on my benching or shooting position. If my preliminary results hold it'll make deer hunting, especially while still hunting given the wide range of possible stances, an "interesting" game.
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Your groups are perfectly fine for primitive barrel sites. A set of target style, aperture peep sights is necessary to achieve better (repeatable) target precision. But this takes away the enjoyment of primitive weapons shooting for me.
3 shots is NOT a group! 5 grains of powder plus-or-minus makes no difference. When folks give advice like this, go see how many times they've actually participated in our forum matches. This match alone is what gives us credibility,,,and bragging rights on the forum.
Burning powder is fun, and we need more shooters to participate in "our" monthly forum shoots.
There's nothing that will increase your shooting ability, and decrease your group size, more than shooting every month.
Take a look at Gary's winning, offhand December 24' Target!
https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/january-19-is-national-tin-can-day.189434/
smoothshooter
50 Cal.
I use thick patches, no starter.
That’s what I do. I’ve jammed balls down before. No thank you. I don’t subscribe to it.
The right dia ball and a .010 patch. Both my .36 & .50 calibers.
Mike in FL
50 Cal.
A fact not always fully understood is that fine accuracy is usually achieved through the often elusive proper adjustments ùarrangement of the variables of load development. Get that right and your groups will shrink to an acceptable level. However, other variables may enter your shooting endeavors that have no part of your best load, but these unlikely problems might best be left until after all load components have been attempted. That said, their certainly may exist some glaring problem that will of course have to be addressed before even looking for that best load. The four load components I'm referring to are powder, projectile, patching, and wads. Each of those components have variables within themselves. Consider the number of changes that come into play for each component. Write them down and keep a record or chart of each change you implement while looking for that elusive variable that works best. Such a method should show on your chart any change you make while keeping in mind that you will likely find more combinations of the four main load components than you first imagined. Many shooters may not go to the extremes required to discover that load that is better than any other, which is sad because the actual activity of searching and learning is great fun in itself.
Let's consider one component at a time. For this purpose and just for the moment do not consider the variables of the other three components, each of which will act on the other three leaving the shooter with an untold number of possible combinations. I have included here a 5th consideration in load development (bore cleaning,) which is not a load component.
Okay. Powder considerations:
Brand?
Granulation?
Charge amount?
Only 3 variables? No, these are just the starting point. When we change those variables to find which is best when used in conjunction with the other components.
Wad:
To use an over powder wad or not, which can only be determined by testing.
What wad?
Material wad is made of?
Thickness of wad?
Lubed or not? If lubed, what lube?
Patch:
Material?
Thickness?
Pre-cut or cut at muzzle? (A pre-cut patch requires the ball be centered upon it before being pushed down. Cutting at the muzzle ensures the ball IS centered.)
Bore cleaning:
Clean between shots? (I recommend that you do especially during load development if for no other reason than to make shots consistent.)
Round ball:
Cast or store-bought swagged?
Diameter?
(I don't mention conical here because I know little about loading or using them because they have no place in the time period that interest me.)
To me, the best thing about a new muzzleloader is the effort and fun put into making it shoot tiny groups.
Let's consider one component at a time. For this purpose and just for the moment do not consider the variables of the other three components, each of which will act on the other three leaving the shooter with an untold number of possible combinations. I have included here a 5th consideration in load development (bore cleaning,) which is not a load component.
Okay. Powder considerations:
Brand?
Granulation?
Charge amount?
Only 3 variables? No, these are just the starting point. When we change those variables to find which is best when used in conjunction with the other components.
Wad:
To use an over powder wad or not, which can only be determined by testing.
What wad?
Material wad is made of?
Thickness of wad?
Lubed or not? If lubed, what lube?
Patch:
Material?
Thickness?
Pre-cut or cut at muzzle? (A pre-cut patch requires the ball be centered upon it before being pushed down. Cutting at the muzzle ensures the ball IS centered.)
Bore cleaning:
Clean between shots? (I recommend that you do especially during load development if for no other reason than to make shots consistent.)
Round ball:
Cast or store-bought swagged?
Diameter?
(I don't mention conical here because I know little about loading or using them because they have no place in the time period that interest me.)
To me, the best thing about a new muzzleloader is the effort and fun put into making it shoot tiny groups.
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Good information but a lot of men don't like to follow good advice? I actually think of M.L. shooting like a farmer plowing a field with a mule while his tractor is parked in the barn? It has to be fun to do it. There are only two things that keep a M.L. shooter from being accrate it being the M.L. or the person. A lot of people do not aim in a way that could give them accuracy. There are other people that don't understand how to get the optimum load for their rifle? That is why so many visit this forum? The only sugestion I have is to try and if it doesn't work do something different? Don't expect a difference if you are not willing to change?
I can see this for competition shooters. I do shoot M1 Garand competitions with the CMP.
For me it’s has diminishing returns and is impractical. But I do understand it.
It can even be OCD driven in many men. It’s a challenge. If someone is a hunter, it’s a less than desirable proposition as the first shot out of a cold, clean barrel WILL NOT lend itself to average accuracy, from the viewpoint of a competition shooters dream shot.
A 3” and even maybe a 4” group at 100 yards with an easy loading ball, shot after shot, will net him a 100% kill average if he is a good shot.
I tried all that with black powder. The tighter fitting ball & patch load increases fouling exponentially. Thus you will need to swab it. Don’t you just get more blow by pressure with an easy loading combination? Maybe. But you can get a consistent 3” group at 100 yards. With my .36 I shoot for 2” groups at 50 yards. Why would I shoot further for let’s say, a ground squirrel or a gray squirrel?
On the CMP range we call this accuracy and OCD thinking…”Chasing the worm”
It will never be exactly how you wanted. Time is better spent shooting offhand for the next 300 shots and become a shooter. Bench shooting doesn’t, nor will it ever count as it doesn’t translate into hunting or field success. What if you need a follow up shot and don’t get the ball all the way down?
I lost a 6 point bull elk when that happened to me. Cold morning/very cold barrel and a tight fitting ball. This causes massive fouling when you shoot. The best thing that could have happened that morning would be a better field shot into the shoulder and broke him down and an easier loading ball. Not through the rib cage and lungs. Live and learn.
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I require my patches to be good enough to re-use after firing if ever needed. I use supple shirt grade canvas. About .018 thick and pure bear oil. Here are the results. Sometimes the castle shaped imprint of the rifling is noticeable. This is a .490 ball and 50 grains of 3f Goex.
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westrayer
40 Cal
Do you know anyone that can donate some FFFg? I gave up on FFg long ago. I have owned several .54 flintlock guns. All production. Each seemed to prefer an Oxyoke .020 patch prelubed and .530 ball over 90 grains of FFFg Goex. My groups ran 3-4" at 100 yards.
This is a heavy hunting load and going any heavier opened up my groups.
I found that starting at 80 grains and Increase by 5 grains caused my impact to rise and then start to go off of center as the group opened up.
It is a pain to find the best combo load.
This is a heavy hunting load and going any heavier opened up my groups.
I found that starting at 80 grains and Increase by 5 grains caused my impact to rise and then start to go off of center as the group opened up.
It is a pain to find the best combo load.
Agreed that it's a PITA to get that accuracy load. But once you're there you don't need to change it. My best loads for my .50s are 65 grns of 3f and an.018 canvas duck patch lubed with Pinesol. Very accurate with open sights.
