Non lead round balls -

[Griz44Mag]

1st - I will state openly that I detest what CA has done to the sportsmen. It's a shame on the voters in CA that they have allowed this to happen.
HOWEVER - for those that are outnumbered and subject to the will of tyrants - there is BISMUTH ALLOY.
Thanks to @Dibbuk for working with me on producing a bismuth alloy round ball for hunting. He is a very patient and understanding man. We had some obstacles, and a learning curve. This alloy does not cast like regular lead, as it does expand like ice when it solidifies. It WILL plug up a mold as you cannot cut the sprue - it has to be "broken".
They are not cheap, but are possible.
I just produced a batch and will be sending these for testing and hunting.
I learned something today, and for an old goat like me - that's pretty awesome!

 

[ohio ramrod]

The alloy would probably work better in a mold without a built in sprue cutter plate. I use an old Dixie "hair curler" mold and find it works very well, as I have pored over 5,000 balls with it over the last fortyfive years.

 

[Griz44Mag]

The alloy would probably work better in a mold without a built in sprue cutter plate. I use an old Dixie "hair curler" mold and find it works very well, as I have pored over 5,000 balls with it over the last fortyfive years.

I was not aware that the lead free alloy was a thing 45 years ago. So I think you are talking about LEAD casting.
LEAD casting is a whole different game. As far as casting lead - I have been casting my own for competition - and shooting upwards of 1K rounds a month I have cast North of 100,000 projectiles. Lead sprue cutting is not anything close what I experienced with Bismuth - once hardened - it does not cut - it breaks.

For bismuth - It's a matter of timing. After a few casts I learned to watch the sprue pool and open it at the EXACT right time to get a clean separation - not really a cut, not really a break - not liquid and not solid, but a clean separation. Getting the right timing is everything.

 

[N.Y. Yankee]

How does the hardness of Bismuth compare with lead?

 

[tenngun]

What about zinc, or tin?

 

[Woody Morgan]

What about zinc, or tin?

Bismuth is considerably denser...about 83% of lead if I remember correctly.
Tin (melts at 450f/232C) and zinc (melts at 786f/419C) are usable but considerably lighter.

wm

 

[megasupermagnum]

While I have not, and never will fire a bismuth patched ball at an animal, I do see issues with it. From testing bullets, bismuth even at a 12% tin, is brittle. Bismuth makes really good shotgun shot, but as a bullet, it leaves a lot to be desired. Does that mean bismuth can't be used for muzzleloading balls? I don't think so, but I do think it requires more than just swapping your lead for bismuth. For one, you now have a lighter ball. A 45 caliber lead ball works great on deer, weighing about 128 grains, and being malleable, really causes damage to organs. Now replace it with bismuth, about 106 grains, it won't expand or flatten, if it does anything, it will break into chunks, and possibly not penetrate enough.

So my suggestion would be to go larger caliber than you would normally think. I'd personally be looking at a 62 caliber as a good size for deer hunting with bismuth. Without expansion, 62 caliber does a pretty good job. If the ball does break up, you have enough mass there that you will still get good enough penetration.

 

[Historian]

Bismuth works just fine in RB form and Buckshot form. I have been shooting it for nearly 9 years and it has taken deer and hog very cleanly. I do highly recommend making the tin ratio 20% for conical bullets to better engage the rifling. This however is not needed for RB or Buckshot unless you deem it so. I have had continued good results for a 5% tin ratio for RB, Buckshot and loose birdshot. Yes bismuth RB will not flatten out entirely like soft lead will as it is slightly harder but the 20% tin ratio will if you so desire. I personally have found no need for it nor have the two gentlemen I make Bismuth RB for. We all hunt deer on a Federal Wildlife Refuge here in North AL which requires nontoxic shot and projectiles. You will loose some weight by adding the tin to soften up the bismuth which of course means loosing some overall projectile weight when compared to a lead projectile of the same caliber. The only two times I saw a RB split into two separate hemispheres was on hogs. These passed completely through and imbedded themselves into the fat on the opposite side of the hog. Both expired extremely quickly and did not run from where they were hit. On deer I have never recovered a ball. I shoot 60 cal RB out of my Pedersoli SXS 20 with the right barrel loaded with RB and the left barrel loaded with Buckshot. As for the Original Poster he needs to use a Mold Release agent and a good pair of wire cutters to clip the sprues. I have absolutely no trouble at all and wait till the balls cool a while before cutting the sprues. Remember Bismuth WILL slightly expand as it cools so you need to purchase a slightly smaller mold. As one poster noted you may also want to go up in ball size due to the weight loss issue with smaller caliber sizes like .40 and .45 which of course would directly impact terminal energy. I will say this in all honesty, I do not miss lead bird shot, Buckshot or RB at all. Anyone is welcome to PM me and I will be glad to help them get started. Below are some pictures of Bismuth Buckshot #1, Bismuth T Shot, Bismuth #4's. I deleted the.60 cal RB pictures by mistake but I will make some tomorrow and post them.
Rob

 

[Griz44Mag]

How does the hardness of Bismuth compare with lead?

The test specs from the foundry says the alloy is BH19.
The vice and chisel tests I did show that the alloy is indeed brittle - it will shatter if you hit it hard enough.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I put a half dozen of these through my 50 cal Dixie last week, accuracy was good, size was only .002 off from the lead balls from the same mold.
Velocity was 135 FPS faster than the lead ball with the same powder charge.
(Less weight - same energy - increased velocity.)
It's a trade off but so far the only drawback I see is the cost. The alloy is 6 times the price of pure virgin lead.

 

[megasupermagnum]

@Historian, I'm sure the .600 works really well. I definitely would not be shooting a non-expanding .440 ball through a deer, or even a .490 for that matter. Bismuth leaves a lot to be desired from lead, but it does work. Besides the huge cost increase, lead is simply better in every manner. Surely you can admit that. I make my own bismuth shot, and use it for waterfowl because I am forced to. Without that, I would never willingly use it on game.

 

[Griz44Mag]

@Historian, I'm sure the .600 works really well. I definitely would not be shooting a non-expanding .440 ball through a deer, or even a .490 for that matter. Bismuth leaves a lot to be desired from lead, but it does work. Besides the huge cost increase, lead is simply better in every manner. Surely you can admit that. I make my own bismuth shot, and use it for waterfowl because I am forced to. Without that, I would never willingly use it on game.

Reasoning on ball expansion:
A normal (unmentionable) rifle bullet starts at somewhere between .243 to .308 - and expands to .300-.450
A round ball starts off as big or bigger than the expansion limits of the smaller modern rounds.
Penetration? A modern bullet usually goes so fast it passes through the game and out the other side. Therefore wasting a good part of it's energy.
The round ball may (likely will) pass completely through as well - but with the increased diameter dumps almost 100% of it's energy in the target.
In my experience I have never lost a deer from a round ball shot.
In the case of the bismuth - the energy of the round ball is the same as the energy from the lead ball - provided they are launched with the same powder charge.
How? Increased velocity because of the lighter ball will accelerate faster with the same amount of energy applied. My magnetospeed proved that to me.
That could very likely result in pass through shots and wasted energy out the other side.
It will be interesting to see how these bismuth balls perform. I think this will be an interesting topic to discuss as more data becomes available.

 

[megasupermagnum]

Energy means nothing at all. I have yet to have a pure lead round ball not exit the far side of an animal. The destruction they leave in the chest is incredible. How much energy a bismuth ball has or looses doesn't matter at all, not even a little bit. What does matter is you have a hard sphere that will not deform. A ball is not that great alone for making holes. Just look what they do to paper. Expanding bullets like the rifle bullets you state do a good job, partly by being grossly over powered, but also because they expand to a blunt end. It's the same reason a flat nosed bullet cuts a hole dramatically bigger than a round nosed bullet in animals.

Luckily in muzzleloaders, diameter is rarely a problem. That said, a 45 caliber with pure lead is a great choice for deer. With bismuth, it would be like shooting a deer with a hardball 45 ACP at best. That's not something I can get behind.

All I'm saying is that if you have a normal 45-54 caliber rifle you like, and now you put bismuth balls in it, you are probably not going to be pleased. I'm sure it will kill stuff. If I was in this predicament, I'd personally not even mess around, go right for a 62 caliber barrel, which does have enough diameter alone that a solid bullet works great, and there's plenty of mass there to overcome when the balls shatter. I don't have a 62 caliber muzzleloader. I base this off my experience with 54 caliber muzzleloaders, and 20 gauge rifled shotguns with hardcast round ball slugs.

 

[Griz44Mag]

All I'm saying is that if you have a normal 45-54 caliber rifle you like, and now you put bismuth balls in it, you are probably not going to be pleased. I'm sure it will kill stuff. If I was in this predicament, I'd personally not even mess around, go right for a 62 caliber barrel, which does have enough diameter alone that a solid bullet works great, and there's plenty of mass there to overcome when the balls shatter. I don't have a 62 caliber muzzleloader. I base this off my experience with 54 caliber muzzleloaders, and 20 gauge rifled shotguns with hardcast round ball slugs.

Lucky me - I live in a state that sees nothing wrong with lead.
It will be interesting to see how the bismuth alloy performs. Someone here will surely give us some information on a CA hunt.
I would like to see some pictures of wounds and hopefully maybe a recovered ball (or pieces).
I personally have not killed a deer (or pig) with a 45 muzzleloader - so I can't say exactly what either of the 2 balls would do.
I have taken a deer with a 45 ++P ACP - loaded with 11BH lead cast in a .452 - 240gr - hollow point.
But that's another story for a different forum.
All deer I have taken with muzzleloaders have been with 50 caliber and 54 caliber - longest shot at 93 yards with the 54.
I have yet to find the pass through balls as none have stayed in the cavity.

 

[megasupermagnum]

I won't be able to provide adequate pictures. Last year the 20 gauge took a young buck, I guess you will have to take my word that they are gruesome, even without expansion. This year I'm setting up my brother with a 12 gauge low velocity hard cast ball, so not a good comparison. I'll probably be shooting a 54 caliber pure lead ball this weekend, but may very well not fill that tag. In a few weeks I may be going over to Wyoming to hunt deer, but that depends on how that week goes for turkey in the Black Hills. I do have a SD deer tag, but I'm leaning towards a rifle with a cast bullet for that one.

Long story short, if anything valuable happens with the 54 caliber, I'll show pictures. Same with buckshot.

 

[Griz44Mag]

RobView attachment 102008

Looking closely at your cast balls - they do not appear to have had the sprues cut. They look rounded like the sprue was just poured short.
Take a close look at the ones I poured - the sprue is all but flush and does not protrude or recess.
What is your weight deviance on those? I'd bet it's over the 1% level as some have a protruding sprue and some appear to have a recessed dimple.

 

[Griz44Mag]

Bismuth is considerably denser...about 83% of lead if I remember correctly.
Tin (melts at 450f/232C) and zinc (melts at 786f/419C) are usable but considerably lighter.

wm

I think you got that backwards. Bismuth is less dense than lead - which does make it lighter. The alloy I bought is Bismuth, tin and antimony and stated to be 82% as dense (by weight). No zinc. Once you get into the physical side of casting it - it becomes less troublesome - temperature and timing rules the day though. The temps are a lot cooler and the timing cycle is a lot longer to get them to solidify properly.

 

[Woody Morgan]

I think you got that backwards. Bismuth is less dense than lead - which does make it lighter. The alloy I bought is Bismuth, tin and antimony and stated to be 82% as dense (by weight). No zinc. Once you get into the physical side of casting it - it becomes less troublesome - temperature and timing rules the day though. The temps are a lot cooler and the timing cycle is a lot longer to get them to solidify properly.

Sure did. Thanks for catching that one!

wm

 

[Gianki]

Hello everyone, sorry if I intrude, but here with me, northern Italy, they are banning the use of lead for hunting, and I believe in the near future it will be abolished for every shooting activity. Ms to want to make balls only of tin cal.45 there is a risk that it will melt in the barrel, since you should increase the charge of BP to overcome the light ball

 

[Historian]

Sir, if you have an email address then PM me and I will be glad to help you out. Bismuth/tin is the way to go with Round Balls. Tin by itself will be too light. Anyway shoot me a PM and I will help you as much as possible.
Rob