Non-Toxic Roundballs?

[Whitworth]

Don't fret, NY (and other areas) may eventually be underwater due to global warming raising the sea levels.

How soon can we look forward to this?

 

[The Crisco Kid]

This scare about lead killing off eagles and such makes no sense. DDT was the culprit and notice how their population has boomed when it was banned and we are still using lead. Megatons of lead have been fired in the past 400 years with no apparent ill effect.

Climate change/warming is a clear and present danger for the Earth. In the past those changes took place over millions of years not the 2-3 hundred we're now looking at. Many plants, wildlife and even much of humanity can't adapt to that. It's not just us but the entire planet that will either fix this or die with it. Parts of the Earth will become hot enough they will be almost unlivable. Where I live the total snowfall for winter has dropped each year of the last five and is less than half of what it was just 5 years ago.

The planet is not going to die and neither is life on it because of what we do. We may, and probably will pretty soon in terms of how long life has existed, go extinct and take a lot of other things with us. Earth will still be here and so will some form of life be on it. We give our selves too much credit by thinking we have the power to accomplish more than has ever been done in the last 4 or so billion years. Life on Earth has survived several crisis before we came along.

Other than that I agree with the first part of your post except for the statement that the megatons of lead fired have had no effect. There have been megatons of humans done in by it.

 

[user 53891]

Those studies were based on flawed data. Yes I am serious.

Anything that comes out of the mouth of a government agency is inherently flawed!! Their agenda is basically to ban any kind of hunting and we want your guns...then we dominate YOU!

Our NY Governor and are President both should think before making decisions that they cannot be enforce, without destroying people's lives.

That my friend is there purpose. To destroy the middle class, and the economy, and America herself. It is the agenda of these politicians and it started when the population fell on their knees, kissed the feet of the politicians, and let them take our freedom.

 

[user 34300]

I have a question about lead shot. What about those studies where ducks have died from eating lead shot? As they’ve done post Mortem examinations and found extremely high lead levels in their systems.
To my understanding that’s why you can only hunt ducks with steel shot or lead substitute. They’ve also found eagles and other Raptors that have died from lead poisoning by eating rabbits another small game that Have been taken with lead then then as their remains are eaten the pellets are ingested causing poisoning.

So I could understand needing lead substitute for a shot if you’re hunting ducks.
I don’t understand why they are calling for a lead substitute for any lead projectile. Seems to me there are many other things that are creating damage or polluting Then lead projectiles.

Ducks have a gizzard. Ducks eat small rocks, and sometimes lead. The gizzard grinds the lead up, increases the surface area, and the lead is absorbed into the bloodstream. So, in a few areas with hard bottomed waterways the ducks can get poisoned. In most places we hunt the bottom of the pond is mud. The ducks can not dabble shot from mud. IMHO the few areas that had a problem were used as an excuse to mandate steel shot.

Steel shot....it a poor substitute from a ballistic and terminal ballistic standpoint. Many more ducks are wounded and lost with steel shot than lead shot.

Raptors. Not sure. I do know that bald eagles are fish eaters. How the get lead from fish I am not sure.

Condors...that was a scam. I was at ground zero. The evidence to linked bullet lead to condor lead was fabricated. The testing data was destroyed to avoid peer review. The test used measured isotope ratios of bullet lead and lead from other sources like paint and trash. The FBI got in big trouble for using this testing procedure. The testing procedure was hokum. Bullet lead is made from giant pigs of recycled lead. There is nothing special or identifiable about it.

The condors that have lead poisoning issues are the same birds over and over. They eat trash and lead paint. There was pictures of them doing it on a fire tower that is now scrubbed from the net. These same birds are/were fed still borne dairy calves. Those calves were often still born due to the cow eating trash or licking paint. The paint contained lead. The calves contained lead. The condors got lead poisoning.

 

[bud in pa]

I can't shoot ducks or geese with lead shot. I can hunt squirrels in the trees along the creek, from my canoe. I guess the shot keeps going up and never falls in the water. How about the guys who hunt geese in the middle of a corn field that doesn't have any water in the vicinity!

 

[NorthFork]

I can't shoot ducks or geese with lead shot. I can hunt squirrels in the trees along the creek, from my canoe. I guess the shot keeps going up and never falls in the water. How about the guys who hunt geese in the middle of a corn field that doesn't have any water in the vicinity!

It is against Federal law to shoot at any waterfowl anywhere in the 50 states with lead shot ANYWHERE. It is also against Federal law to shoot any projectile from a rifle from or over water in all 50 states. Shooting lead shot from a canoe at squirrels on water falls through the cracks of the law. Personally I don't agree with ANY of this and would NEVER, NEVER turn anyone in for it. But it is what it is.

I have two very good acquaintances who I can trust (but would string me up in a heart beat for a fish/game violation). One is an Illinois DNR Officer and one is a US Fish and Wildlife Service Officer. That's where I get my info as well as being a longtime member of PF and DU.

 

[Caterpillar Hunter]

When I was a kid in the '50's and '60's, bald eagles were extremely rare to nonexistent where I lived. Thanks to the ban on DDT, they're doing well today. However, lead (smaller than a grain of rice) ingested especially by waterfowl and scavengers (vultures and birds of prey) are affected by the lead we shoot. California's lead problems seem to me to be unique. Weren't the California Condors' population down to a dozen birds or so at one time? Lead from unrecovered animals or lead shards left in gutted out animals has been been shown to end up in scavengers' bodies resulting in their death. At least in habitats that Condors live in, I'm for a lead ban there. It is not unusual at all to see stories of lead poisoning in bald eagles that are cared for in Raptor Recovery hospitals in my state. Lead poisoning happens and is real.

 

[sturmkatze]

According to authentic scientists(ones not paid by government or Universities to lie) have proven: poles have switched more than 450 times throughout creation. Poles have melted many, many times, and other areas that were cold became tropical many, many times. And there were no trains, plains, and automobiles!! Carbon credits will make billionaires richer and taxes imposed for carbon will make us poorer!!
It's called weather and even the scientific meteorologists can't perdict the weather from one week to the next, yet they are going to tell us what the weather and climate will be 100 years from now! Lies because they know most of us today won't be around to prove they lied!
Sorry, about the speech....still hope you are right.

I don't care, as long as the rotten apple goes under

 

[Rock Home Isle]

This happened back in 2017

https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-b...ing-shot-against-ammunition-industry-quietly/
Sneaky Sneaky

 

[Rawhide67]

NY state slid in to the abyss decades ago. Lead banis just a matter of time. Whatever replaces it will eventually be banned as well The goal isn't about lead it's about negating the ability to fire a gun.

 

[springfield art]

Well, it had to happen, the idiots in the state capital (NY) banned the use of lead projectiles for hunting! Just great! There are alternatives for centerfire rifle and pistol cartridges, but what do I do with my .54 Renegade? Cast zinc balls? Idiots!

Shotgun ammo has Bismuth; it apparently has weight of lead & is used in Calif., etc. That's modern shotgun ammo FYI.

 

[hugsjensen]

@centershot

When it comes to pass, try bismuth. Close to the same density of lead. A little bit harder than lead. Melts easily with home casting equipment. Can be more tiresome to cast but.... it is available at RotoMetals and will keep you in the game. And bismuth (95% bismuth, 5% tin) passes any and all non-toxic regs in all 50 states. I use bismuth for all my waterfowl hunting. Kills just like lead used to decades ago. Expensive, but great stuff. I understand you are likely taking about roundballs, not shot. Bismuth will cast a roundball in a mold just like lead. It's great problem is that it expands as it cools.

Living here in the Peoples Republic of California, I use plain old Bbs for shooting birds. I use all cooper bullets with plastic sabbots in my 50, 54 smokes poles.

 

[Doc]

Since I live in Ca. I do have experience with Bismuth. Does it cost a bit more than lead? YES it does. But really not that much more. After considering the cost of the gun, license, gas, etc. I found Bismuth readily available from Roto Metals and other suppliers. Since all of my hunting is done with Damascus barrels I must use Bismuth, not steel. For pheasant, ducks etc. one can and should use the same shot size in Bismuth they used in lead. For steel you must go up two sizes as for pheasant from #6 to #4, as my wife does. For round balls, Bismuth melts and pours similar to lead. So those that purchased their round balls either learn or find a friend that molds their own. A non- lead law for hunting is not insurmountable.
Doc,

 

[user 34300]

"I use plain old Bbs for shooting birds." Air rifle shot?? Those BBs are super hard. They will ruin you barrel in one shot.

I have significant experience trying to kill ducks with steel shot and black powder. In short, it is a waste of time. The velocity is to low to reliably kill ducks.

 

[Grimord]

I still want to see the science that proves that the sporting use of lead bullets (not lead shot) is detrimental to the environment and wildlife. This is the only factor that should determine that the use of lead projectiles should cease. As someone posted earlier, the battlefields of Gettysburg, Shiloh, Manassas and Vicksburg probably have tons of lead deposited in the soil, and I don't see where there has been any documentation of the detrimental effects. I will continue to use lead in my muzzle loaders, the heck with a law that is unenforcable. So make a criminal out of me if you must and put me in jail. I'm too old to care, and besides having 3 hots and a cot sounds pretty good compared to a nursing home.

 

[Doc]

I still want to see the science that proves that the sporting use of lead bullets (not lead shot) is detrimental to the environment and wildlife. This is the only factor that should determine that the use of lead projectiles should cease. As someone posted earlier, the battlefields of Gettysburg, Shiloh, Manassas and Vicksburg probably have tons of lead deposited in the soil, and I don't see where there has been any documentation of the detrimental effects. I will continue to use lead in my muzzle loaders, the heck with a law that is unenforcable. So make a criminal out of me if you must and put me in jail. I'm too old to care, and besides having 3 hots and a cot sounds pretty good compared to a nursing home.

What is detrimental is determined by politicians not science. Unfortunately we have to live with that or risk punishment. It’s truly that simple.
Doc,

 

[user 53891]

I still want to see the science that proves that the sporting use of lead bullets (not lead shot) is detrimental to the environment and wildlife. This is the only factor that should determine that the use of lead projectiles should cease. As someone posted earlier, the battlefields of Gettysburg, Shiloh, Manassas and Vicksburg probably have tons of lead deposited in the soil, and I don't see where there has been any documentation of the detrimental effects. I will continue to use lead in my muzzle loaders, the heck with a law that is unenforcable. So make a criminal out of me if you must and put me in jail. I'm too old to care, and besides having 3 hots and a cot sounds pretty good compared to a nursing home.

I agree with you wholeheartedly! But, if they make criminals out of us, we have it made, because these a-holes support criminals. It's law abiding folks that get thrown in jail.

 

[Major Dorman]

.It is also against Federal law to shoot any projectile from a rifle from or over water in all 50 states.

Ok. Where can I learn more about this law?

 

[user 53891]

Ok. Where can I learn more about this law?

You won't find it anywhere.

 

[user 53891]

It is against Federal law to shoot at any waterfowl anywhere in the 50 states with lead shot ANYWHERE. It is also against Federal law to shoot any projectile from a rifle from or over water in all 50 states. Shooting lead shot from a canoe at squirrels on water falls through the cracks of the law. Personally I don't agree with ANY of this and would NEVER, NEVER turn anyone in for it. But it is what it is.

I have two very good acquaintances who I can trust (but would string me up in a heart beat for a fish/game violation). One is an Illinois DNR Officer and one is a US Fish and Wildlife Service Officer. That's where I get my info as well as being a longtime member of PF and DU.

Wrong. I just watched a moose, a seal, Beaver, ducks, geese, get shot from a boat, and also fowl over water being shot, as we do hunt geese and duck.. Where you come up with this stuff?