• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

NorthStar Canoe Gun

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
The pull on this gun is 13 1/2". It is very comfortable to carry all day. When i purchased this gun i was looking for a gun for trail walks. I got lucky in finding it at a gun show. The previous owner used it on horseback as an easy to carry gun. I own several smoothbore now but this was my first one.
 
Hey Flintlock, would you happen to have anymore
photo's . That is a exactly what I'm looking to build.
 
wayne37 said:
Thanks flintlock thats what I was looking for. Do
you have a shortene buttstock or is it a 14" length of pull ? Wayne

You have been given a lot of solid information by experienced shooters and even builders, on why these short barrels are not a good idea. A couple of folks have jumped in to tell you how magical and potent their short barreled guns are. You get a post extolling a stubby gun and immediately respond with "Thanks, that's what I was looking for". Sounds like you had your mind made up from the start and just waited until the right post came along. Be careful that you are not "cherry-picking" posts here to justify the purchase of a gun you will regret buying before long. Because the market for used "neverwuz" guns is small indeed. And these things never existed in numbers large enough to matter in the old days. For some very good reasons--most of which have been listed here and apparently disregarded. Oh well, whatever you do, good luck. :v
 
I have several 20 gauge 42 inch smoothbore's. Two Caywoods, one flint and one percussion. So I have been able to compare them against my Jim Searles that was ordered as a field gun. I seem to be able to shoot this one very well. It is accurate in my hands. It is a wonderful small game gun, and I couldn't be happier with it...

All I'm saying is that there are no hard and fast rules here as to which is best. I like the shorter gun for actively hunting in thicker cover, and my longer guns for out in the open.



Fowler007.jpg


giz
 
No, I have not made up my mind yet, It's something I am going to have to mull over for a couple of days . I really appreciate all of the input you guys have given me. I am kind of torn between long verses short when it comes to black powder guns and I'm only going to get one spin at the wheel at least for a while, like everybody else money is tight for toys and this will be my first smoothbore. I've been in contact with Matt
at NSW and he gave me some good info. I really
do like the way his kits look.
 
Is this the only gun you will have? Because if it is, maybe you ought to give this some more thought. And if you have other guns and are expecting this to be a truly useful and versatile gun you will be disappointed. I have heard it said that using one of these short barreled pop guns beats throwing rocks, but people whose opinons I value say that is simply not true.

Gee whiz Rusty, you're being harsh on Wayne. He asked if anyone owns one and if they will perform. He didn't "Cherry pick" all of the resonses, he saw responses from guys who actually own and shoot one. All of the rest are speculation, conjecture and myth. A short barrel is NOT an obstacle to accuracy. I shoot a canoe gun with a 24 gage X 20" barrel regularly. In fact I used this gun at the World Champoinship Smoothbore Shoot a couple weeks ago and took third place. Would have had second butJack came from behind to kill 5 clays in a row and stole it from me. We were shooting the Rifle trailwalk with typical rifle difficult targets at long and short range. I hit 23 out of 31 bona fide targets ranging from 25 to 100 + yards. The last target was a 4" gong at 25 yards. I smacked it in the center. Then we all backed up to 50 yards and I hit the same target WITH THE SAME SIGHT PICTURE. No kidding. These guns will shoot straight and with authority if loaded correctly.

Many guys find their canoe guns useful and versatile. I have a pile of photos with customers with game that they took with these 20" barreled guns. Turkey, buffalo, small game and large. You shouldn't knock these things until you try one. I don't want to write a book here or an advertisement for NSW, but someone needs to straighten out the record and I've had a few PM's asking why I haven't responded. I just did without stirring the pot too much. Two or three guys that were at that shoot watch this forum and I hope they will chime in on how well that gun shot. I know that there are some on this forum who hate the term canoe gun and their distast shows through in their posts. There are others who like to shoot different guns than you whether they be long or short. I also know that you are giving what you think is good advice to a new shooter and that is good except the information isn't backed up by fact. If I thought that these guns were junk or weren't "correct" I wouldn't make 'em. People wouldn't buy 'em.
 
I was at the above mentioned "World Champion Smoothbore Shoot." Laffindog was shooting his small gun because I was shooting his regular NW trade gun. He had us all worried for a while that he was going to win the "World" but luckily he cannot hit clay pigeons. His fault not the guns. I thought he was crazy for bringing out the small gun. I will never think that again.

Kootenai
NW Montana
 
I know you wouldn't make junk amd I think that he's come the right man for his gun. But for some one who seems to lack experience I think he would be better served with one of your longer barreled guns--at least a 36" barrel and the longer barrel should be given serious consideration. The longer sighting plane for one thing will be a help to him as will the extra velocity. The short barrel is a little too specialized for someone who isn't experienced. I've had short barreled smoothbores and always felt they were not as useful or potent as my longer barreled guns. If Wayne had lots of experience and a few guns or even a persona in mind to go along with this choice, my response would be much different.

I certainly wasn't questioning the quality of the components you use nor the fit and finish of your guns. Every one that I've seen has been first rate by every standard. As far as I am concerned you build the best trade guns available. I have deliberately left a hole in my smoothbore lineup for a 16 gauge. One day I want to fill it with one of your trade guns. You still offer a 16 gauge, right? Dan :v
 
I sponsor the World Championship Smoothbore Matches, and can state unequivocally that the canoe gun will shoot right up with any other barrel length. To say it is no good past 15 yards is foolish, and I would advise a paid up life insurance policy, should you chose to be a target at 100 yards.
It is the man behind the gun, not the barrel length that counts. I do believe if I was hunting in timber country, or on horseback, it would be very high on my list.
 
It doesn't take much powder to push a heavy ball through paper to score point at a championship shoot. Even less powder is needed to make a bang plate " bong"!

The very short barrels do give up a lot of velocity because they can't burn as much powder efficiently. I shoot a 30 inch barrel 20 gauge, and that is mainly for bird hunting. Because i hunt whitetail deer in edge brush and forests along rivers, I can use the same gun with a PRB to kill deer out to 75 yards or so. I know the 3/4 oz ball will kill at much greater range. However, the trajectory begins to become a problem so that you have to know your range to the target accurately if you want to make a clean kill at longer distances.

There is a reason that folks like our Mike Brooks, makes, and shoots MLer with 44 to 60 inch long barrels, and the performance of these smoothbores IS the proof of the pudding, so to speak.

If I were looking at a trade gun, I would be wanting a 36" barrel, as its is more likely to be used to hunt deer, and bear, than to shoot birds on the fly. The short barreled guns are fun, and they do well in competitions-with the right shooter-- but they would not be my first choice to take into the field for hunting anything other than rabbits, squirrels, and tight holding, close flushing birds.

Just my $.02 worth.
 
The 15 yard reference was regarding the use of shot. If I was on horse back I'd probably choose my Hawken and if I was in thick cover, I'd probably choose one of my .62 caliber rifles, maybe my swivel breech. I don't believe I would choose a short barreled gun with a short length of pull, unless it was the only gun I owned.

The level of power used in a target match is a bit different than what is required for dropping a large animal at a distance. With a 20" barrel you have a barrel length that many of the early pistols exceeded(in Europe). Even with a charge that is fully burned in that short barrel, you aren't achieving velocities comparable to a full size gun. It just isn't possible. And there is no way a twenty inch barrel is going to push a shot load at the same velocities as a longer barrel. I have had smoothbores with very short barrels before and they did not stack up against my longer barreled guns with either ball or shot.

Since Wayne is just tickled pink to hear how wonderful a 20" barrel gun is, I am sure he will order one. The only responses that elicit giddiness and enthusiasm from him are those singing the praises of the short smoothbore with the short pull. He seems to be unable to comprehend the fact that those in the chorus own these guns and those suggesting something a bit more moderate have experience with them and are giving sound and useful advice for the long term. Anyway 'nuff said. If it doesn't work out for the lad, maybe I'll loan him my barrel stretcher.
 
Slow down their Sparky, You have made some good points concerning barrel length and velocity when it comes to BP . I'm not new to this game , owning
two Zouave's ,a carbine and a full length rifle I have seen no difference with the lethality of the two shooting a miniball at a deer at 50yds. But thats a different ballgame. I am new to smoothbore
and waying the pro's and cons of a "canoe gun" verses a 65" trade rifle. I am not going to do this twice,. I would like one smooth bore, and am
starting to lean towards something in a 34 " barrel
length.....and since this will be my only smoothbore I guess you can take your "barrel stretcher" and clamp it to your :shocked2:
 
Wayne may be new here....
But I'm starting to like him.... :rotf:

Seriously, this is getting pretty silly. The trade gun I posted will take a deer without any problem in the areas I hunt. Here in the puckerbrush country of Maine, I'd have no advantage carrying a longer length barrel...and more difficulty managing my way. It's all up and downhill in some pretty thick stuff. If I don't hit a Partridge in the first 20 yards, it won't matter how long my barrel length is, as he'll be in the spruce by then...So a trade length barrel makes sense. If it makes sense now, it made sense 150 years ago. Common sense would seem to be PC

There's a museum with many examples of shorter barreled guns up here in Maine. I imagine that is true of other collections. The original guns that either were shortened intentionally or due to damages incurred, simply exist. You can choose to ignore that, or not.


But what do I know...I'm just a modern guy from Maine trying to pretend I'm somebody else from a earlier period. That's my persona :blah:


giz
 
I would hope that you are not trying to Bust Brush while you hunt. There are game trails, big and small through any woods, and those are the paths to follow.

As a kid I didn't know that, and spent hours, and lots of energy, armed with a bow and arrows, busting through bushes, and bramble for no good or productive reasons. It was not until I was older, and had read some books to supplement my knowledge of the wild that I began noticing those game trails, paths, runs, etc. that weaved in and out of brush and trees.

Then I began noticing that large trees shade out small brush on the north sides of them, giving cleared area where I could move much easier.

And I noticed that squirrels make constant trails from One large tree to another large tree. They may not be in straight lines in the direction I wanted to travel, but they got to where I wanted to go, none the less.

Since making this discovery, and learning to SLOW DOWN-- way down, I see more, cover ground quietly, without disturbing the forest sentries that send out the alarm calls when you move too fast. I never seem to have a problem finding my way up and down hills, or across bottoms. All it took was for me to stop, take a few breathes and really look.

Let the animals who live there 24/7 tell you how to get where you want to go by the tracks and paths they leave. Virtually all ridges have wide, night time ridge trails, that are very wide, because they are used by so many animals at night to move from one area to another. Use those trails.

Iron Jim Rackham, a member on this forum, hunts in Upstate New York. He is using a 20 gauge fowler that Mike Brooks made for him, with a 42" barrel. I have to believe that the brush country he hunts is not much different than what you are seeing in Maine. I have a personal friend at Bar Harbor, Me., who hunts the forests and brush, around a cabin he is building back in the woods. From the pictures he has sent to me, it looks a lot like the pictures posted here by Iron Jim, with his gun and the grouse he killed with it one day.

I think your idea of using a 34 inch barrel is okay. But, I really don't think anyone using a longer barrel is going to be handicapped in deep woods hunting. You are just as likely to find a close vine, or branch stopping a short, 20 " barrel as one that will stop you swinging a 42" barrel.

Quail, Grouse, and Woodcock all seem to know when to flush and where to fly to put the most obstructions in the path of your gun. I can introduce you to hunters who swear the birds have eyes in the back of their heads, for all the " sure " shots that miss.

Its called " hunting", not " getting". :shocked2: :wink: :thumbsup:
 
Well aren't you rude telling me to clamp my barrel stretcher to my face. It's quite obvious that you have never seen a barrel stretcher or you would know that isn't possible. The simple truth here is that some of us have tried very hard to share our experience with you and gotten very little enthusiasm in return. But let someone give you a response supporting your choice and you are all giggles and rolling on the floor gasping for breath. And you are a newbie to smoothbores by your own admission. Given the tenor of your responses the impression is that of a person picking the answers that suit the choice he has already made.

I have no idea what you are talking about now, but one major difference between the canoe gun and the 65" trade rifle--whatever that is--is that the 65" trade rifle, by definition, is a rifle. Didn't realize you were looking for one. Guess I missed that post. The Zouave rifle and the carbine--which did not exist in period--are completely different shooting experiences compared to smoothbores. However, the longer barreled rifle can burn heavier powder charges and offers a longer sighting plane than the carbine can and will be more accurate and hit harder at any given range. Except it seems when you shoot them.

At my age I really ought to know better than to advise newbies about firearms choices. It's as frustrating and hopeless an endeavor as trying to reason with a liberal. Consider the offer of the barrel stretcher withdrawn. You'd probably hurt yourself with it anyway. Or enjoy it way too much!
 
Back
Top