Novice Black Powder Hunting and Large Game

[Erik550c]

Hello, black powder novice here with some questions about hunting and defense. I had to post this in the general section because it isn't specific to one class of black powder guns. I want to use black powder to hunt large game, or at least to be protected from large animals while hunting small game. I want to buy the largest capacity, easiest to load, quickest firing, longest range black powder revolver (or any other type of black powder if I have to) gun that can kill elk, deer, and grizzly bears if possible. I don't know what it is, but I heard percussion black powder guns are the easiest to load. What antique revolver and caliber is the best for hunting and wild animal protection? Can any be fitted with a scope? I've been looking at .44's from Cabella, but I can't find any non-lead balls (for hunting in California where lead is becoming banned) that will work for it. I saw expensive .45 non-lead balls, but couldn't find a good .45 revolver. I am interested in a new reproduction antique Colt .45 revolver, but can't find it and cost is an issue. I am fine using lead for protection and cost efficiency for as long as it is legal, but is a .44 revolver going to cut it? I want a revolver for capacity and speed. Do I also need a .50 cal for stopping power (once again, I plan on only having black powder)? Is the Traditions Trapper .50 cal percussion pistol a good backup weapon/one shot grizzly kill gun? I don't have room for a rifle unless need be (my bag has an air rifle already for small game). If I had the money and room I wouldn't mind the Traditions Hawkens Woodsman .50 rifle. I want to use lead free ammo for game hunting, what are my options for powerful enough guns that will accept lead free munitions (and where can I buy the ammo)?

Any recommendations would be helpful, I know that carrying black powder only for extended hunting isn't the best choice. Like I mentioned, hopefully there is one revolver that does it all. If not, hopefully a revolver and large caliber pistol can do the trick together.

Thanks again!

Erik550c

 

[FishDFly]

"Like I mentioned, hopefully there is one revolver that does it all. If not, hopefully a revolver and large caliber pistol can do the trick together."


One word to answer all your questions, nope.

I had always heard shooting large bears with a revolver was a waste of time.

While in Alaska I asked the Master Guide why he wore a pistol while on horseback in a totally enclosed holster. He said that he rode first in the group and if a brown bear was going to attack, it attacked the first horse where he rode. When the rider is thrown off, there went his rifle as the horse left. He said the pistol was to get the bear off of him, no other use.

We spent a considerable of time riding in the dark, he hunted late each day. Made sense then.

Totally enclosed holster, he said that while riding through alders, an alder branch partially cocked the hammer and dropped it on a round in the chamber. He was shot in the leg with a 44 Mag, he said thank god the shot did not kill his horse.

 

[palonghunter]

If you want to hunt large game with a traditional muzzleloader, sensible choices start with a .50 caliber rifle, and bigger is probably better. For grizzlies I'd say a .58 or bigger might be a wise choice.

I don't consider a blackpowder handgun suitable for anything bigger than deer, and even then you've got to be within bow range.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I want to buy the largest capacity, easiest to load, quickest firing, longest range black powder revolver (or any other type of black powder if I have to) gun that can kill elk, deer, and grizzly bears if possible. I don't know what it is, but I heard percussion black powder guns are the easiest to load. What antique revolver and caliber is the best for hunting and wild animal protection?

OK a Colt Dragoon or a Colt Walker are the biggest caplock or cap-n-ball revolvers out there, and I would rather have something else than either if coming up against anything in the "Brown Bear" family.

One gun to do both Elk and Deer, PLUS stopping a Griz. The ONLY option that I can think of is a Pedersoli Kodiak Express in .58 caliber, or the next one down on the link, the Safari Express, a .72 caliber rifle (like shooting a 12 gauge with a rifled barrel). You'll have two shots to put down your bear, and either will hammer a deer or an elk.

Another option, is to get a nice rifle in .54 or .58 for hunting, which will also take a bear, but as backup carry a 20 gauge Howdah loaded with .600 caliber balls. The drawback is that the bear has to be rather close for the Howdah to be used, but it's the same drawback as a revolver you mentioned...and you're only going to get at most two shots off before the bear is "on" you even with 6 chambers.

Option 3, you could opt for a SxS shotgun in either 12 or ten gauge. The problem there is you have to be very close to the deer or elk, say 50 yards, to place your shot. The bear has to be about that close too, but as they are smooth bore you also can hunt birds and forest game. This is probably the least expensive, but gives you other problems to solve...namely getting close to the big game.

Option 1 is what I'd go for.... in fact if I was as worried as you sound I'd think about Option one in .58, plus carrying a Howdah in .58. Cabella's only sells the 20 gauge version, but Pedersoli makes it in .58 as well, and you could use one bullet for both firearms.

True, you can't use all lead ball, so you'll have to cast your own from a non-lead alloy. Not a problem.

LD

 

[Spikebuck]

I'd think about Option one in .58, plus carrying a Howdah in .58. Cabella's only sells the 20 gauge version, but Pedersoli makes it in .58 as well, and you could use one bullet for both firearms.

True, you can't use all lead ball, so you'll have to cast your own from a non-lead alloy. Not a problem.

LD

If a .58 is determined to be the solution, Roundball has already posted his tests on using brass round balls for .58's. Might be worth a peek.

Link to Part 1 of Roundball's Study

Link to Roundball's Study

 

[BrownBear]

I want to use black powder to hunt large game, or at least to be protected from large animals while hunting small game.

That's a dilemma, whether using muzzleloaders or modern.

Coming from my firsthand experience of hunting large game and small in serious brown bear country, along with 5 bear charges that ended peacefully over the years, I can add the accounts from friends who experienced charges that turned out well and not so well.

When the chips are down, you usually have time for one shot, and one shot only. Maybe. Charges happen so fast and start so close, you don't have time for switching guns, much less for follow-up shots in most cases. You get one shot, if at all. If there's enough time for gun swapping and multiple shots, it probably was a bluff charge in the first place.

My one charge while carrying a muzzleloader started from about 40 yards out, and the bear cut the distance to 10 yards in about two big hops. She stopped to cuss and threaten me, trying to make up her mind about Hop #3 and bloodshed. Fortunately there were cubs involved and they were behind her, so she sloooooowly, with much skepticism and bad language, backed off to tend the cubs while keeping an eye on me to make sure I had no ill will. Lotta guys would have been inclined to start popping after the first hop, but truly there wasn't time to raise a rifle (any rifle), much less switch from a rifle to your "backup."

I've struggled with the "backup" concept a lot in both my modern hunting and muzzleloader hunting. Yeah, I carry it, but I'm pretty darned sure it's for my peace of mind and the sale of more sporting goods, rather than something that will be useful on fang and claw. The better option is to practice quickly shouldering your muzzleloader and getting off a single, well aimed shot at a target closing on you faster than a racehorse.

 

[TMan51]

I think the consensus from people who live and work in bear country, is that the sprays have the edge. The handgun is to shoot your buddy in the foot, so he can't runs as fast, if the spray doesn't work.

If you contact a guide for a bowhunt, they will tell you to carry pepper spray, as even a .44 Magnum is unlikely to save your bacon if the bear actually intends to put teeth on your person.

And the history of BP firearms, and serious size bears, is that it's a team sport. From Lewis and Clark forward, one shot is probably not gonna work even with a large caliber rifle.

 

[necchi]

FYI;
* The 44 revolver is called that for historical name only, they all use a 45 diameter bullet and/or a 451-454 diameter ball, as said the Dragoon and Walker have the largest capacity for powder in the chambers.
* You will not kill a Grizzly Bear with any BP pistol or revolver without being severely malled or killed yourself. (period)

 

[Erik550c]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I like the idea of a .58 double 20 gauge Howdah. I'm not seeing being able to carry a .22 rifle and a .58 rifle, and at least the Howdah has the potential to drop a large predator while being friendly to carry. I saw someone using a .58 20 gauge Howdah in a YouTube video, and in his video moments before shooting he tilted his gun to the ground and a ball fell out of the barrel. Is that normal? Can that be avoided?

Thanks again!

 

[coloradoclyde]

I didn't know they had grizzly bears in California?
Or that you could hunt them. :hmm: :hmm:

My advice is ....put the horse in front of the cart..
Learn how to hunt first then learn how to shoot a muzzleloader then learn how to hunt with a muzzleloader.

 

[azmntman]

Probably wasn't patched well, should not be a problem.

You wont be having any issues with grizzly in CA so using real lead on bears may not be an issue.

Agree with above, a BP revolver will kill a bear but not before he does his damage Unless you get lucky with a between the yes or spine shot. If really concerned carry a howdah as big as you can and keep it "ready" with hard lead. Myself, Id have a back up guy with a 45-70 guide gun or larger if the threat was real and expected. But that's just me, I have a $10K deductible :idunno:

 

[Col. Batguano]

If it is for serious life and death defense work, black powder guns are not the best option out there.

 

[Erik550c]

Nice, I am new to hunting. I wanted defense from all large pradators, good to know one of the worst is not here.

 

[Erik550c]

Weird. Last time I replied I asked a question about cost to make non lead alloy & copper/bronze balls, but my question isn't in my post anymore and it didn't say that a mod edited it.

 

[Mickc01]

Wow, my first reaction was "OMG where do you hunt!?" but after reading the responses I certainly see your concern.

Around here the largest predator you have to worry about is the grizzled mountaineer who's pot patch or home-brewing setup you've just walked up on.... :grin:

By-the-way, welcome to the best forum on the net.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Nice, I am new to hunting. I wanted defense from all large pradators, good to know one of the worst is not here.

The best defense is achieved by wielding that thing between your ears.
A good education is the most valuable tool you can have. :thumbsup:

 

[necchi]

Weird. Last time I replied I asked a question about cost to make non lead alloy & copper/bronze balls, but my question isn't in my post anymore and it didn't say that a mod edited it.

The edit reply to your first was a courtesy by the forum owner and not always present.
me thinks you should go back and read the rules you agreed to when you joined.
And Colorado clyde's comment above should be helpful too,
We're all here willing to help,, but at least a basic understanding of hunting and shooting helps formulate a goal when questions are asked.

 

[coloradoclyde]

A question should never be more than one sentence long.
The longer and more confusing the question. The harder it is to answer.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Weird. Last time I replied I asked a question about cost to make non lead alloy & copper/bronze balls, but my question isn't in my post anymore and it didn't say that a mod edited it.

If you'd like to Change the subject (to "casting balls"), please start a new topic in the appropriate category.

 

[Erik550c]

Thanks everyone.