OFF HAND SHOOTING

[dsayer]

Dry firing? I can see someone ruining a nipple on the percussion rifles if it doesn't have two triggers? My rifle has two triggers and I sometime dry fire it to check the feel.

I have an old nipple with a piece of pencil eraser jammed onto it that I use expressly for this purpose. I would guess I dry fire my rifle 100 times for each time I live fire it.

 

[Don Steele]

Erwan,
Your post was just fine and quite understandable. That approach takes a lot of live-fire shooting...and that is a good thing..!!
I believe dry-fire practice to be one of the most effective ways to improve offhand shooting. When I shot caplocks, I kept an old nipple to put on the barrel for dry firing. With flintlocks, most folks like to put a small piece of wood in the ****. If you have a double trigger you can "dry fire" without even having the lock in the rifle, but it's not the same experience as actually having the **** or hammer fall. In double trigger rifles, don't dry fire at half-****. That can damage the sear. Let the hammer or **** all the way down.

 

[Tumbledown]

I have found one key for me is to firmly shoulder the gun. Don't just place the butt against the body, pull it in with the extended arm. This "locks" it in place by creating tension on the arm as opposed to trying to hold it up and out.

 

[Erwan]

Erwan,
Your post was just fine and quite understandable.

Thanks.
For target shooting everybody here use a stecher so I do with that: only the "clik" of this stecher...
In "teaching" it's allways with caps and no flints, the training with flintlocks comes later, when the people can learn shooting with flinter and when they are a bit advanced. My formation is only whith beginners of the year and after that they can fly with theyre own wings...

 

[Dave Orchard]

Practice with a similarly-sighted spring-piston pellet rifle like a WeihrauchbHW35E has nearly supplanted dry-firing for me.

Spring-piston rather than pneumatics because of the recoil & lag/slow lock-time require impeccable follow-thru, like a flintlock.

If you are not shooting in formal competition, you don't best-grade (expensive) "match" pellets.
.177 Gamo Tomohawks shoot very well in my HW35, and the open sights(I replaced the "light-eliminating" globe front;-) are better for small game and pest like packrats trying to find a way into our cabin, as well as duplicating the sights on my ML.

Davo

 

[Dave Orchard]

The single best advice to me about offhand, was to find a comfortable stance w/weapon shouldered, then close my eyes and swing right & left w/eyes kept closed, then let my body find natural point of aim.
Then open eyes and see if you have to shift your feet. (If so try again)

If you find your natural point of aim, you are not fighting muscle tension to "correct" that will increase muscle tremors.

I fire on the exhale....
If you stop breathing longer than 8 seconds, your retinas are beginning to "starve" for O2, and the signal from eye to brain begins to be very slightly delayed, according to a Russian treatise on marksmanship.
You get your shot away with your eyes telling you where the sights WERE a few milli-seconds ago.

You also need to work on "calling your shot" til it becomes second nature.

Davo

 

[Dr5x]

Here is where we disagree! Never do I try to fire while anticipating sight picture intersecting the target! Main reason is trigger jerk which pulls you back off target. I was taught and use the following method for OH target shooting: Bring the rifle up while getting sight picture at the point of aim, stopping on target. I do not go upward past the target and back down for two reasons. 1.Muscles are steadier with a firm load(going up) and then to a lighter load, (slowing and stopping) versus the reverse muscle use. 2. When you come up past, naturally you have come back down and now the target is covered by the barrel. Now, when I settle into my wobble (we all have em) the trigger is being squeezed. This is also a timing issue. We all can go through the sequence of the aforementioned in a certain time zone. Too fast and you will not be ready/steady. Too long on the time and you will get tired and gain wobble.
Dry firing is one of the best ways to keep in practice.
Flintlocklar

LARRY.
WHAT PART OF OMAHA DO YOU DWELL.I WAS BORN AND RAISED THERE. ATTENDED CENTRAL HIGH SCHOOL THAT SEEMS TO BE RUN LIKE A COLLEGE WITH ALUMNI ASSOCIATIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING. I GRADUATED IN 1946.I LEFT IN 1952 TO MAKE A BAD MARRIAGE AND HAVE BEEN BACK ONLY FOR MY MOM'S FUNERAL AND MUCH LATER THE 50TH HIGH SCHOOL REUNION.
I EXPECT EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED BUT I ENJOYREMEMBERING THE OLD DAYS. PEOPLE IN ST. LOUIS THINK OMAHA IS A NOISE YOU MAKE AT NIGHT.
DUTCH SCHOULTZ

 

[Dr5x]

The single best advice to me about offhand, was to find a comfortable stance w/weapon shouldered, then close my eyes and swing right & left w/eyes kept closed, then let my body find natural point of aim.
Then open eyes and see if you have to shift your feet. (If so try again)

If you find your natural point of aim, you are not fighting muscle tension to "correct" that will increase muscle tremors.

I fire on the exhale....
If you stop breathing longer than 8 seconds, your retinas are beginning to "starve" for O2, and the signal from eye to brain begins to be very slightly delayed, according to a Russian treatise on marksmanship.
You get your shot away with your eyes telling you where the sights WERE a few milli-seconds ago.

You also need to work on "calling your shot" til it becomes second nature.

Davo

I WROTE A NUMBER OF SHORT PIECES RELATED STRONGLY OR WEAKLY ON THE SUBJECT OF BLACK POWDER AND MUZZLELOADING AND GOT THE MOST RESULTS ON THE SUBJECT OF OFF HAND SHOOTING/ LIKE MOOSE MILK THERE WERE ABOUT AS MANY OPINIONS AS RIFLEMEN REPLYING BUT THE ONE THING THAT APPEARED THE MOST WAS THE SUGGESTION OF CONTINUED PRACTICE USUALLY INVOLVING DRY FIREING
I FOUND A RUSSION VIDEO GAME THAT DUPLICATED THE ACT OF FIRING ON TARGET ALMOST EXACTLY/ ALL YOU SAW WAS THE FRONT SIGHT AND THE TARGET. THE SHOTS WERE TIMED AND AS IN REAL LIFE. THE LONGER YOU HELD THE WIDER THE WOBBLE OR SWAYING ABOUT. WHEN FIRED THE "GUN" THE SHOT APPEARED ON A SMALL TARGET. IT WAS AMAZING HOW QUICKLY THIS TIGHTENED UP THE RESULTANT GROUPS.
I PUT THE LINK TO THAT SIMPLE EFFCTIVE VIDEO GAME IN MY BOOK. I WOULD TELL YOU WHERE BUT I CAN NO LONGER READ ANYTHING ON MY BOOK BECAUSE ESCAPING VISION.
IF THE LINK IS STILL ACTIVE AND ANYONE COULD FIND IT FOR ME. I WOULD LIKE TO PRESENT IT TO THE FORUM. AS THE FRONT SIGHT MOVES TOWARD THE TARGET CENTER YOU QUICKLY LEARN TO FIRE WHEN THE GUN IS MUCH CLODER TO THE CENTER OF THE TARGET. IT'S BEEN A YEAR OR TWO AND THE LINK MAY BE DEAD NOW.
.IT REALLY PUT YOU IN THE PACE OF SOMEONE HOPING TO HIT THE TARGET TIGHTLY FROM A REALISTICALLY MOVING FRONT SIGHT.
I THOUGHT I HAP PUT THE LINK OON THE FORUM'S PAGES BUT GUESS NOT/

DUTCH SCHOULTZ/

 

[dave951]

Caveat here- I am an instructor.

All we shoot in NSSA competition is offhand (except with cannons). First need to know your natural point of aim. That's the "close the eyes and point the gun" thing. Yes, it makes a difference. Next, you absolutely need to know your dominant eye. Just because you're right handed doesn't mean your right eye is your dominant eye. That can seriously affect offhand accuracy. Get that stuff established and you have the basics. Dry fire is extremely helpful. Put a plastic tire valve stem cap on the nipple and work on it.

Other things that affect offhand shooting, caffiene and sugar. Don't overdo either. Work out a bit. You don't need to be a body builder but toned upper body strength helps tremendously. You'll help that by regular dry fire practice. It also helps to just hold your heaviest rifle on a target several times a day with no trigger pull. Just hold it up and steady. Do about 5 reps each time.

 

[John Turner]

Dutch your web site in your book was.
www.deti.milby/templates/swf/pistol/
index/swf

 

[John Turner]

I stand corrected it is
www.deti.mil.by/templates/swf/Pisto/
index/sec
not sure if the web site is active

 

[Erwan]

not sure if the web site is active

​

 

[Grenadier1758]

Dutch's web site is blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com.

Hope that is what you are looking for.

 

[Dr5x]

Dutch's web site is blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com.

Hope that is what you are looking for.

NO. LOYALIST DAVE. THAT IS NOT WHAT I;M LOOKOING FOR.
SOMEWHERE IN MY BOOK I HAVE A PRARAGRAPH DISCUSSING THE RUSSIAN
VIDEO GAME. THAT TO ME WAS THE BEST TRAINING DEVICE I HAVE EVER SEEN FOR A PERSON HOPING TO IMPOVE HIS OFFHAND SHOOTING.
THERE WAS A LINK INCLUDED.SOMEONE SENT ME WHAT APPEARS TO BE A PARTIAL
EMAIL ADDRESS.
IT'S PROBABLY DEAD AFTER THESE 5 OR 6 YEARS.
DUTCH

 

[Dphar1950]

Press the trigger when the sights settle on the target. If they don't settle then you need more practice. Will they STAY there. Not real well. But there is time enough if you practice. Put in the wood flint and put a post-it note on the wall with a black dot and practice. And call your shots.

 

[Dphar1950]

Once a person has a properly fitted gun, then they can follow the advice given previously to shoot to the best that they can.

Sorry, its a rifle not a shotgun and "fit" is simply not that important. You can have a "perfect fit" and someone with a generic rifle that is a good shot will still beat you. The only way is to obtain it is something like an Olympic Free Rifle. Where everything can be adjusted to shooting any of the positions.

 

[Bo T]

Sorry, its a rifle not a shotgun and "fit" is simply not that important. You can have a "perfect fit" and someone with a generic rifle that is a good shot will still beat you. The only way is to obtain it is something like an Olympic Free Rifle. Where everything can be adjusted to shooting any of the positions.

Nothing wrong with a generic rifle, if it fits you. A good shot with a generic rifle that is a poor fit will rarely beat a good shot with a generic rifle that is a good fit. Simple but true. And we are discussing 'offhand', not any of the positions. Shooting from a rest is a great equalizer for guns that don't fit well. If everyone had to do all of their shooting offhand then 'fit' would become much, much more important.

 

[Dr5x]

Sorry, its a rifle not a shotgun and "fit" is simply not that important. You can have a "perfect fit" and someone with a generic rifle that is a good shot will still beat you. The only way is to obtain it is something like an Olympic Free Rifle. Where everything can be adjusted to shooting any of the positions.

WHAT EXACTLY IS AN OLYMPIC FREE RIFLE?
I NEVER SAW A CLOSE UP OF WHAT THEY WERE SHOOTING.

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

 

[Bo T]

WHAT EXACTLY IS AN OLYMPIC FREE RIFLE?
I NEVER SAW A CLOSE UP OF WHAT THEY WERE SHOOTING.

DUTCH SCHOULTZ

It is an unmentionable with fine mechanical adjustments on the stock that adjust for pretty much everything. Offset, cant, lop, drop, grip, forearm height, comb, and maybe some other stuff I don't recall. In the old days, the stock maker would carve these adjustments in or the owner would glue on a cheek piece or make other modifications as wanted. I have always tried on a gun for fit before thinking about buying it.

 

[Dr5x]

It is an unmentionable with fine mechanical adjustments on the stock that adjust for pretty much everything. Offset, cant, lop, drop, grip, forearm height, comb, and maybe some other stuff I don't recall. In the old days, the stock maker would carve these adjustments in or the owner would glue on a cheek piece or make other modifications as wanted. I have always tried on a gun for fit before thinking about buying it.

SO THOSE OLMPIC SHOOTERS HAVE NO EXCUSE IF THEY MISS A SHOT I CAN BE FAIR ERRERD ALLOWN IF THE BALL GOES WRONG.
HUMMM
I WONDER IF THEY ALSO MAKE CERTAIN THE BALL IS THAT OFF BALANCE WITH A LIGHT INCLUSION OR AIR BUBBLE WHICH I HAVE FOUND BEHIND SOME WILD SHOTS.
TSK...
DUTCH