Options for misaligned vent?

[Stophel]

I know it has nothing to do with the vent but what is the screw in the mortise for?

It's the impression from the sear spring screw head...it needs to have the wood removed so that it no longer touches. :wink:

Wow, that's a big external cone. I'm not real crazy about external cones. Does the pan lid even cover that thing when it's closed???

 

[Matt PA]

I know it has nothing to do with the vent but what is the screw in the mortise for?

It's the impression from the sear spring screw head...it needs to have the wood removed so that it no longer touches. :wink:

Wow, that's a big external cone. I'm not real crazy about external cones. Does the pan lid even cover that thing when it's closed???

You're correct it is the impression of that screw and I will recess that area, thanks! Didn't even notice that.

If you look directly from the side the contour of pan lid just barely covers the cone.....you can just see the top edge of it when closed. Looking down at it from any other angle you can clearly see the hole.

Ok bedding the thing properly is above my pay grade at this point.......and I also don't want to erode the wood under the lock any further. I think I might go the wax/epoxy method and "bed" the lock and seal the area permanently.

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I don't have a ton of money wrapped up in the gun ($575) as it was just a starting point to get familiar with smoothbores, so if I can keep it together and shooting occasionally and reliably for turkeys and rabbits a couple times a year that's what I'm hoping for.

Oh and here's a look at the whole gun:

 

[oldarmy]

It doesn't look like one of his better works :v
That being said. I don't own the weapon.
My concern would be
1. Does it function? and shoot where you point it?
2. Is it reliable? Meaning doe it go "bang" when you pull the trigger.
The advice about filling the pan and making the vent hole a little bigger will cure your problem. IMHO. The choice of flint is your own :thumbsup:
It's hand made,, not in a factory. Those are hand cuts in the in-letting.. Might be a little rough :surrender: The machine clean CNC cuts in the lock mortise or the high end guns will not really change your ignition problem.
The screw..well you need to do what you need to.
Stuff happens and we find solutions to it :surrender:
Being a builder/assembler,, I can tell you.. I have NEVER BUILT A PERFECT One yet :redface:
Regards
Mike

 

[Capt. Jas.]

It doesn't look like one of his better works :v

Looks standard to all that I have seen minus the tack job.

 

[rabjr]

I know it has nothing to do with the vent but what is the screw in the mortise for?

It's the impression from the sear spring screw head...it needs to have the wood removed so that it no longer touches. :wink:

Wow, that's a big external cone. I'm not real crazy about external cones. Does the pan lid even cover that thing when it's closed???

Ah I see what you mean now. Been hitting the wood so tight, almost has a metallic look and looked like a screw head..I don't think it would hurt to relieve that a tad.

 

[tg]

I would lay in some epoxy and take it down after dry to have someting to let the pan set firmly against (I have done this with most of the mortise on one gun to allow a ledge for the lock to sit on) and take out some wood as Stophel said to remove the phantom screw head, and go with it, you will likely get a lot of good use out of it, not a bad deal really just needs a bit of TLC I had a JB smoothrilfe they can be good shooters.The one thing I did not like was that the oct section was not tapered.it looks like the cone is retained within the pan profile from the looks of the first pic.

 

[Dphar]

I picked up a second hand Jackie Brown 42" .62cal fowler recently to use this turkey season.....I noticed the vent was misaligned front to back but didn't think it would be quite enough to seriously affect ignition.....well it seems that it does.

The lock/flint combo throws enough spark to see from space and the priming charge was 100% ignition.......however with standard light pan charging the gun would only fire about 1/2 the time. Oddly enough when it DID fire it went off FAST.

I'm hesitant to throw a "fill the pan" type band aid on it to get it to fire consistently, but I think a slow fire would be better than a no fire? :idunno:

The vent is well coned and 1/16" and I'm running FFFg in the bore.......would drilling it out to 5/64" make any appreciable difference?

The gun shoots great when it goes off, patterns good with my turkey loads and roundballs look great too.....there were just too many flashes per bang. It did go off several times first try nice and fast but most took 2 or 3 priming charges.

I've included a picture of the gun with some reference lines to show just how out of alignment it is.....

Suggestions?

Too little priming is a chronic cause of flashes in the pan. They made the pans as large as they were for a reason folks. More heat, better ignition. Where moderns got the idea that a little prime was better I have no idea. I assume they don't hunt in Gbear habitat much. It is not faster and is less reliable.
Using enough priming is the cheapest fix unless the liner is not made properly. The location is not all that bad. If it bothers you have someone who knows how install a larger White Lighting liner. This should allow the liner to be moved forward and down a little. Which will also fix...

The external cone is another problem. If anything needs fixing this is where I would start.
If its not coned INTERNALLY its a BIG problem.
Big external cones need to be clean to work well. Any significant fouling in the cone will cause flashes in the pan.
The English designs of the late flint period were the best and the Chambers White Lightning is near identical *if properly installed*. The "web" between the internal cone and the exterior should not exceed .020" for best results.
This

is on my copy of an English sporting rifle circa 1810.

Both the one above and this one are shop made but very similar to the Chambers vent liner.

This is a pistol barrel and has been loaded for the photo op to show how far the main charge is from the pan.

Dan

 

[Dphar]

This is how it looks fouled and loaded.
It shows the distance from the pan side of the liner to the internal counterbore. It also illustrates why the vent is fast and reliable.
Dan

 

[Zoar]

Quote---'You can clearly see the vent hole from any other angle (when the pan is closed)'

EXACTLY!!! So, making the vent hole bigger will only make things worse! You'll be losing powder at a fast rate if you take her out for a walk in the woods!

However as you said it is an okay gun (it does look pretty nice especially from a little distance!) And best of all it goes bang most of the time, or you can make it go bang virtually all the time with a bit more pan powder, most likely. And you do NOT have a lot of $$$ tied up in it and it was your entry into these types of rifles so you are basically good I would say and yes agree with those who say--Don't do any polishing, drilling, machining on it! Leave it as it is and get on to your next acquisition/project gun and ENJOY the RIDE! :thumbsup:

 

[tg]

"If you look directly from the side the contour of pan lid just barely covers the cone.....you can just see the top edge of it when closed. Looking down at it from any other angle you can clearly see the hole.'

That sounds like the lock needs to go into the mortice farther and be closer to/touching the barrel?

 

[Stophel]

See, it's held up by that sear spring screw!

:grin:

 

[Stophel]

If it works, it works. If, however, it continues to not function properly, I would find a friend with a milling machine, and let him start you a hole centered down and towards the front of your current hole (It CAN be done carefully with a file...) to bring the center of your hole into better position for the pan, then drill it out and put a liner in it. A larger size liner can also hang below the bottom corner of the side flat so that the pan seals up completely against metal (there's wood showing there now, and eventually, it's gonna eat that wood out). :wink:

It would not be a big deal to put a liner in it and fix all those little problems in one fell swoop. :wink:

 

[tg]

"
It would not be a big deal to put a liner in it and fix all those little problems in one fell swoop."

Damn Chris, I have been trying my darndest to lead folks away from liner mania, you're no help

 

[excess650]

"
It would not be a big deal to put a liner in it and fix all those little problems in one fell swoop."

Damn Chris, I have been trying my darndest to lead folks away from liner mania, you're no help

yeah, he's convinced me that all I need is a 1/8" touch hole and some fuse :shake: :rotf: :blah:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

My first flinter had no liner and was interminably slow in the ignition dept. It went click, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, boom. I honestly believe it took a full second. An inside coned liner in the proper place will help the gun go cli-boom with no shhhhhhhhhhh. It aggravates the manure out of me to hear that delay in the movies. The guns didn't go off so slowly as they portray.

Try shooting a gun with a proper liner, say 5 times and then shoot yours the same. I'll bet you feel the one with the liner is ever so slightly faster. If a human can notice the difference, then it is alot in the overall speed of a muzzloader/

 

[tg]

"The guns didn't go off so slowly as they portray."

True and they also did not have lners in the majority of guns.

I have had guns with liners and a gun without a liner can be made to fire quite fast as the originals did, at least they were fast enough to suit the vast majority, I am refering for a way to experience shooting a flinter in the same manner as the folks who lived with them did.quite fast enough when linerless, it's a historical thing which is not likely of much concern to most but interesting to do if the history thing is important to the individual.

 

[Matt PA]

You guys have been terrific with all of your help and suggestions.....very much appreciated. :thumbsup:

Out of curiosity approx how much would having a gunsmith / builder install a White Lightin' liner run me? I have access to some competent shops around here, Dixon's, Cabin Creek and probably quite a few others.
I can see more smoothbores in the future but there's just something funky and off about this one that I like and I wouldn't mind making it really serviceable.

 

[rabjr]

My first flinter had no liner and was interminably slow in the ignition dept. It went click, shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, boom. I honestly believe it took a full second. An inside coned liner in the proper place will help the gun go cli-boom with no shhhhhhhhhhh. It aggravates the manure out of me to hear that delay in the movies. The guns didn't go off so slowly as they portray.

Try shooting a gun with a proper liner, say 5 times and then shoot yours the same. I'll bet you feel the one with the liner is ever so slightly faster. If a human can notice the difference, then it is alot in the overall speed of a muzzloader/

A lot of that to is for dramatic effect I'm sure. Anytime a Director can do that, he will, no matter how stupid it looks to us.

 

[Flintlock58]

I bought a kit from TOTW and put a ventliner in my 11 ga smoothie myself. Take a look and see if it is something you want to tackle. It went well and I am certainly not a machinist!

 

[varsity07840]

Dan:

Thanks for posting those pictures. They confirm the theory I expressed in the thead PATENT BREECH, AGAIN regarding proximity of the powder charge to the touch hole.

Duane