Original Blunderbuss ??

[rickystl]

Hello all. Here are some photos of a Blunderbuss currently being offered on an auction web-site. Here is the description:

079-0415-0019, Belgium Flint Musketoon, with brass furniture. Brass barrel, triggerguard and escutcheon. Crisp wood edges, the iron lock is marked LOTT. Liege proofs, functional, the gun is 30 inches in length with a 15 1/4 inch barrel. Very good overall.

For those of you old enough, does this not suspiciously look like the replica blunderbuss the was sold by Navy Arms back in the late 1970's to early 1980's ? The current bid is $875.00. What do you guys think? Rick. :hmm:

 

[Fernando Keilty]

Hi Ricky:

Do not know the production of Navy Arms. Could you upload a picture of the punches? If it were a weapon Bbelga, would punch ELG

 

[Ed Hamberg]

Ricky, The parts used to build this Blunderbus where available from Dixie Gun Works back in the '70's and 80's. I built a musketoon for my son using these parts with an 11 ga. X 30" Belgium barrel also from Dixie. I still have 3 of the brass blunderbus barrel's in my shop, unused, a side plate and entry thimble. I saw one of these sell as an "original" a few years ago for over $3000.00!!! The seller said he inherited it and did not know it value or its age. The one shown in this auction is very poorly constructed and looks NOTHING like an original. I would have a hard time giving $200 bucks for it....Ed

 

[rickystl]

Hi Long Knife. You know, I now remember that in the Dixie Catalog. Either at the same time Navy Arms was selling the complete gun, or just after they discontinued it in their catalog, Dixie had the barrel and brass mounts for sale seperatly. Yes, I now remember that. :thumbsup:
Since there is no indication of "Navy Arms" in the description, it was probably built using the parts as you suggested.
The Auction this gun is offered on is an otherwise reputable antique guns Site. Wonder if I should let them know? Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[Ed Hamberg]

Ricky, If you want to let them know, go ahead, but I doubt they will take a strangers word and chance losing some BIG bucks!!!!!.....Ed

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Ed. That's what I was thinking too. Just wanted another opinion. :haha: Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[hawkeye2]

I don't remember Navy Arms selling a blunderbuss though it's possible but Dixie did for a while. They may have imported only one batch as I remember it only being available for a few years. They sold the parts for many years after and the brass on this one is the same (a friend had some of the hardware). The engraving (it had black paint rubbed into it)and the shape of the side plate were both very distinctive. I do believe it came from India and that the stock was rosewood. As much as I like strange things it was far enough off in appearance from an original that I was not interested. The one CVA sold later was much better but still wrong. I just looked for some of my old Dixie catalogs but they are packed away somewhere. Try the late 60's and early 70's for the blunderbuss. The one in the auction is just poorly enough done to have been an early Dixie but I can't remember for sure. I don't know what the lock looked like but I don't remember any LOTT marked locks before the latter part of the 70's but that could be a replacement. Notice the lock doesn't match the molding around it.

 

[TFoley]

The current bid is $875.00. What do you guys think? Rick.

I think that if you took the '8' off the price and that piece of junk you'd still be around $50 high.

If that's 'good condition' what the heck does 'poor condition' look like?

tac

 

[jamesthomas]

I would see if I could contact the current bidder and let him know what it is. Then I would contact the Auction people and tell them. There's no reason to let someone get ripped off.

 

[rickystl]

Hi Tac. I should have worded that differently. :haha: NO! I wasn't thinking about buying it. I would be hard pressed to pay even $200.00 for it. And that would be just to get the barrel and lock.
But everyone above does seem to confirm that this is newer build using those parts from Dixie. Glad my memory is not completely gone yet. :haha:
Thanks for all the responses. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[nit wit]

I think the 03 on the lock might have been the year of the build not 16,17,18 ,19 but 2003 :shocked2:
I saw a white metal luger sell at an auction for 1200 bucks. I even asked the man who bought it what made it so special, "oh, a rare 1917 artillery model" I just smiled and said uh, huh! :applause: An education is an expensive thing! :rotf:
Nit Wit

 

[rickystl]

:rotf: I've had that happen to me a couple times in the past. :haha:

By the way, that blunderbuss is now up to $1,275.00 :shocked2: :idunno: The bidders obviously don't know what they're bidding on. Oh well. Rick. :hatsoff:

 

[FFL]

Ignorance is bliss. It is scary to see a reproduction being offered at such a price. I hope it never happens to me.

 

[jamesthomas]

I'm glad I don't like blunderblusses, $1275.00 :shocked2: It must be nice to have that kind of money to throw at a $200.00 Dollar gun :shake: .

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'm glad I don't like blunderblusses, $1275.00 :shocked2: It must be nice to have that kind of money to throw at a $200.00 Dollar gun :shake: .

That's not even funny since ole pal Dennis could probably make a flip-out bayonet version for not a lot more!
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.ne...x200/1526385_10200975434043802_26453222_n.jpg

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'm glad I don't like blunderblusses, $1275.00 :shocked2: It must be nice to have that kind of money to throw at a $200.00 Dollar gun :shake: .

That's not even funny since ole pal Dennis could probably make a flip-out bayonet version for not a lot more!
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.ne...x200/1526385_10200975434043802_26453222_n.jpg

Here's a better look at Dennis' latest pretty...he did this for the U.S.S. Fort Worth, just in case they ever had problems with pirates or French frigates!
https://scontent-a-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1507978_10201238210573051_1103824773_n.jpg

 

[MacRob46]

I remember both the Dixie GW parts and the Navy Arms blunderbuss. I also believe that this one is one of those or was built using some of the parts. The workmanship is not particularly good nor is the engraving on the fittings. The Lott lock was also used on the Navy Arms version. My vote is for this being a repro.

 

[KABAR2]

It's pretty sad..... seeing a repro get this sort of money.... a few years ago I bought an original iron barreled blunderbuss that was missing the cock for 200.00..... you never know what the market will bring....

 

[btech]

This brings me back to my favorite subject of authenticity of firearms in these auctions. If you ask about documentation they give you the “I’ve been doing this for 30 years” speech. If you question the gun, they get offended. I haven’t found on auction site yet that will back up what they sell. Most of the sites don’t even have the gun in their possession and haven’t even looked at it. They tell you, “We take the sellers word”. They will not supply any paperwork or appraisals. They try to negate all this with a “5 day return policy”. Well that’s nice, but you won’t get that gun authenticated in 5 days and they know that. I’ve seen a major auction site have to pull 2 guns in the last 3 months for being fakes. If these guys are that good, how did it ever make the auction in the first place?

 

[hawkeye2]

"I haven’t found on auction site yet that will back up what they sell." The auction site does not sell the items listed. They are sold by individuals using the service provided by the auction site(s) such as eBay, Auction Arms and Gunbroker. This also applies to sites where items are listed for sale (not auctioned off) such as Guns America and Cxxxxslist. They are no more responsible for the claims of the individuals offering the items than the owners of a strip mall are responsible for what the merchants who are their tenants offer for sale in their shops.

"I haven’t found on auction site yet that will back up what they sell." "They" aren't selling so they do not have to back up anything.

What we see here is something ranging from ignorance to blatant stupidity :shake: on the part of the seller. Of course there is the possibility that the seller suspects or actually knows what he has and is withholding information. The seller may be telling a little white lie ( :bull: ) or he may be outright dishonest. Verification is not the responsibility of the auction site anymore than it is the responsibility of the local newspaper to validate the contents of a classified ad before they publish it. Auction houses where items are placed on display before the auction and held up in front of the bidder are different in that they depend on their reputation for their livelihood. They would neither be able to sell or receive items to sell if they misrepresented them. Auction houses like that run by James Julia will not knowingly misrepresent items, they cannot afford to.

We on this forum are fortunate in that we have the benefit of years of collective knowledge to draw from. We may not always agree on the fine points and our memories may not be quite as good as we wish but the ultimate goal is to provide knowledge and assistance to others. This thread is an excellent example of that.

I have probably run on far too long :yakyak: but I would like to add in closing: Ultimately "let the buyer beware"!