Over powder materials

[BRUN]

OK this sounds like a strange question.....
Been reading what people use for an over powder material and was wondering about any different types.So far Ive read about felt wads,corn meal,wasp nest,and cream of wheat.What about leaves?Do you wad them up or leave them flat and put it down the bore?Any other stuff that will work or does not work?

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I use felt discs (pads) I make myself. Noticeably tighter groups but I suppose other things work as well. Some even use a lubed patch over powder. One advantage of a felt disc is that I put a dollop of Go-Jo (white) atop after I get it started into the bore. Keeps me shooting many shots at the range.

 

[jlangenh]

Hey Blizzard, what kind of felt do you use to make your discs? How thick is it and where do you get it? The only felt I can find is only about 1/8 inch thick and too soft to hold its shape.

 

[Many Klatch]

I have used leaves as wadding for bird shot in my 20 ga smoothbore. The horseweeds work OK as an emergency procedure, but they really gunk up the inside of the bore after just one shot. The smell coming out the barrel is really rank too. I figure that a lot of the juice in the leaf is squeezed out when the powder ignites. It must mix with the burnt powder instantly to make the gunk.

Many Klatch

 

[BrownBear]

I've always wondered about that, because folks way back when didn't necessarily have felt.

I got into the field with mine one time and no wads. There was an old newspaper in my truck so I wadded up a small piece and used that over the powder, then did the same with a small piece over the shot. I was careful to really seat everything to crush the paper as much as possible, seating the overpowder wad all the way before pouring in the shot.

I gotta say it shot just about as well as with felt in a couple of quick pattern tests, and I went on hunting and got my game without noticing any difference in field performance.

I never could find any remnants of the newspaper, so I'm guessing it got blown apart as it left the bore. Still wouldn't use it in dry country though.

 

[juancho]

i've done few tests recently with newspaper, and corrugated carboard boxes.First I made a punch cutter .002" biger than the bore (.751 for my Pedersoli Bess). I tried diferent number of over powder wads in the form of carboard discs ( 1,then 2,3,..) topped by a piece of chrunched newspaper aprox 5"x5" and another disc on top followed by pellets and a disc to hold everything in there.
I found the newspaper material to be really good at increaseing pressures ( gaged by sound and kick, no fancy equipment here), but very inconsistent in that it must be loaded folded the same way every time.And there is no guaranty that it will perform the same.
I found a graet deal of lead in the barrel because it was in contact with the pellets. A sort of cup must be used to avoid this , so I started making them with newspaper, loading them on top of 5 discs. My results so far are about 20" spread #4 pellets @ 25 yds. with a very dense and even pattern. My next test will be to load "bags " of pellets. I will let you know how it goes. By the way all the wads and paper come out shreded, but stopped the lead problem and noticiably shrank the patterns.
I am planning to use his loads for turkey, please I nedd sugestions

 

[J.M.]

I like a cardboard overpowder card, then a felt wonderwad, then the shot then a overshot card. With 6ogr FFFg, I got very consistent patterns, and decent density to about 25 yds. I tried a bunch of combinations, and this one is pretty consistent for me.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

If you want to throw a tight pattern, dispense with everything except overshot wads. I shoot a lot of pheasants with a 12 gauge flintlock fowler, and have always obtained best results by loading 3 drams of 2FG powder beneath 4 overshot wads, followed by 1 1/4 ounces of #6 shot and topped off with 2 overshot wads to keep the column securely in place.

If any component is heavier than an individual piece of shot, that component has a tendency to blow through the shot column and disrupt patterns.
Since cushion wads and overpowder wads are both heavier than a #6 pellet, using them creates a donut pattern.

4 overshot wads on top of the powder are sufficient cushion and insulation against the explosive gases. They will also drop off a few feet in front of the muzzle, rather than traveling through the shot column as cushion and overpowder wads often do.

To avoid catching air while loading, poke a hole with an awl through the overshot wads at 12 o'clock. When loading arange the holes at 12, 3, 6 and 9 O'clock. This will avoid traping air and by staggering the holes, avoid letting gases burn through the holes on ignition.

I shoot a jug choked gun, but very frequently bag hard flying birds at 40 yards and beyond.

A secondary advantage of just using overshot wads, is the ability to dispense with all the other wads. It will save you time and money, and more importantly deliver the tightest patterns.

 

[Croppy Boy]

That's interesting. I found that if you peel off one of the three layers on the over powder wad, it can help tighten up the pattern.

 

[Jarikeen]

I've too often read about felt for over powder. You guys must have the real natural stuff over there. All the felt I've ever come across in Australia has been synthetic and melts with flame.

 

[FishDFly]

A friend made his felt disks from felt window insulation material from the hardware store.

He would melt "Gulfwax", household parafin wax, and mix in some vasoline and soak the pads in the melted wax and then remove them. He dumped them on wax paper to cool. The wax gave them some rigidity and the vasoline made them some what flexible.

He loved to tinker with things.

RDE

 

[BRUN]

So anybody use anything besides felt?I was kinda thinkin roundball shootin when I posted this but the felt ideas will help when I try shot.Keep em comin.Thanks

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think the comments of Iron Jim, above, are the most interesting comment posted to date. I have used a 1/8" overpowder card in my 20 ga. fowler, and it does a very good job of sealing the gases for both shot and RB loads. But the idea of using only overshot cards, or wafers, to eliminate carrying extras in the field is intriguing, and his method of loading makes sense. I am going to have to do my own testing, of course.

I have used felt wads in my 50 ca. rifle, However, they don't alwas seat properly and I still get an occasional flyer, and burned patchs. Up until now, I have only loaded ONE felt wad, so Now I need to go back and try loading more than one, to see of that helps seal the bore completely shot for shot.

If the felt wad works, the weather stripping you can buy in rolls would be a cheap way of acquiring the felt needed. All you need is a bore sized punch to make your own wads.

I prefer using beeswax and olive oil for a lube to soak the felt wads in. Beeswax is softer and less brittle than parafin. YOu can use something like crisco also, with the beeswax, to cut the cost down even more. ( use the lard-like crisco, and not the liquid. Just heat the beeswax and oil or lard in a small can that is put into a frying pan full of water, to created a double boiler effect. Otherwise, you might heat the wax too much and start a fire. When the stuff is all melted and you have skimmed the top with a spoon, just put the felt wads in and push them down so they soak through completely, then take them out, strain them, and put them on wax paper to cool and dry. YOu can do hundreds of wads in just one setting, making this a once a year chore, even if you target shoot every month. I use a washed and dried out cat food can, because I have so many of them every day, and when I am tired of melting wax and oil, I just turn off the neat, remove the small can from the boiling water, and let it cool. If you have large quantities of the mixture on your wax paper after removing the cooled and dried lubricated wads, you can scrape the excess off into the pan before you cool it down, and save it in the can as I do. Or just through the wax paper and extras away.

 

[Itegorm]

Just saw this post and wanted to put my 2 cents in. I very seldom (almost never) use any sort of commercial wads or felt wads. I almost always use either leaves (green or dead) or grass or a bit of tow (by-product from linen manufacturing) or sometimes a bit of paper or hornets nest for waddig both over powder and over shot/ball. I have had great luck with using just what it on hand. I've taken lots of bunnies, squirrels, ducks, geese, etc. using what was on hand for wadding. I have even shot a few sporting clays courses that way with no ill effects. Try a few different methods and see what works. Personally I have the best luck using equal amounts of wadding over powder and over shot whereas conventional wisdom holds that a thinner amount of wadding should be used over shot.

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Oh, I should have mentioned that I lubricate the overshot wads with mink oil. After I poke holes through the wads, I stack them like poker chips, perhaps 1/2" thick and rub mink oil on the edges. (Obviously I can't put the mink oil on the centeres of the wads, since they are now stocked between my fingers like a coin roll.) I shoot a lot of trap as well as live birds, and have never had loading problems. I do run a brush through the bore when trap shooting every 7 shots, and find that loading is still easy. I've never shot more than 21 clays consecutively, thus I've never reached a point where I have to clean the bore with water and patches prior to returning home.

When I first got the fowler I couldn't break more than 20 of 21 birds thrown. I'm pretty familar with the gun now, and can't recall missing a clay, unless it was an ignition failure. I wouldn't consider that a miss, since the gun didn't discharge. I often have one or more misfires on 21 birds thrown. When hunting I rarely get the opportunity to bag more than 2 birds, thus ignition isn't a problem. My flints start to need a little work after about 15 shots, and I usually forget to knap, turn or replace them when trap shooting.

I've taken over 80 pheasants and chukars with the fowler,in a matter of months and very often find myself bagging more birds than my centerfire friends. I think that is more the function of a full jug choke, since I can easily put down a bird further than 40 yards out.

I find I do much better with my flint fowler than my double barrel percussion friends do, simply because I've dispensed with the overpowder and felt cushion wads. I have only one friend who regularly uses his double, and once having persuaded him to use overshot wads exclusively, his shooting improved dramatically. He was only breaking about half his clays previouly, and is breaking them all now, if we don't penalize him for using the second barrel. In other words, if he misses with the first shot, he will connect with the second. Previously, he missed with both barrels 1/2 the time.

The best way to verify if my recommendation will work for you, is to try it yourself. I have only tried it on perhaps 7 shotguns, and everyone patterned tighter using just overshot wads. Obviously a full choked gun will yield better patterns than a cylinder bore, but compared to the overpowder/cushion wads, groups will still be much tighter with overshot wads only.

The other recommendation I would make is shot size. #6 works very well since each pellet is heavier than a card. It also travels further than smaller shot sizes. Many people think I'm showing off shooting trap with #6 shot since they will be shooting 7 1/2 or more likly #8, and seem to think that I am deliberately reducing the number of pellets to make breaking birds more challenging.

Despite my efforts to correct them , I have learned to simply shut up and take the credit. In point of fact, the smaller shot sizes just don't carry as well in a muzzleloader. I get worse results throwing 1 1/4 ounces of 7 1/2 then I do with #6. Your results may vary, but I think you'll find that #6 shot yields optimum results for live or clay birds.

Good luck.

 

[54mountain]

One thing I've found that works really well in my 24ga is untreated cellotex (sp) from the local hardware store. I punch em out just over sized. I use 1/2 inch thick material and split then in half then dip them in lube. depending on the load a full one will sometimes punch a hole in the pattern and I found breaking them in half solved the problem plus gives me twice as many wads.

 

[Wehrmacht]

OK, I'm going to test your method with only overshot cards and see what I can do.

Now a question about pheasants......
I went out to South Dakota a couple of years ago pheasant hunting,and I'm still confused about what took place. My main question is....just how hard is it to kill one of these birds? :hmm:
I was shooting a cyl bore George Fineot 16ga fowling piece, #6 shot,and I forget the charge but probably about 65gr. These were released birds,but they got up and flew like gangbusters, and it was hard to get much closer than 18-20 yards before they flushed. The first bird that I shot at, I knocked a bunch of tail feathers out. The next nine birds that got up (three each morning for 3 days) I killed deader than 4 o'clock. I don't even yet believe it! I'm not a wing shooter. I was and still am very inexperienced with scatterguns. Some of these birds were out to around 35 or so yards before I shot. Nine in a row came down :shocked2: I got to wondering IF the farmer/guide might not be "helping"me out a little, but I never saw him reload,and I was suspicious enough to watch closely. And I never heard him shoot....all I could hear out of him was ROOSTER-ROOSTER-SHOOT!

The question simply is.....are these birds really easy to knock down with a few pellets? I wouldn't think so. Not as tough as a turkey I wouldn't think,but surely not a pushover! Any thoughts?

 

[Roy]

I've seen pen raised pheasant fall pretty easy, and I have seen more than a few wild ones take a couple of full charges and still manage to fly 40yds then run. :hmm: good thing I have a good dog with a great nose :haha:
A pellet in the head seems to take them down fairly quick.

Another question for you wad shooting guys. How over sized should a felt wad be? .005? .010?

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Results vary considerably. I find hens easier to take down than roosters. I'm not convinced that a near miss wouldn't kill a hen, as they seem ready to die of fright.

2 weeks ago my dog was working a junk pile, and I assumed she was after rabbits. She stuck her head in an old pipe and barked. I supposed she had her head stuck, and lowered the fowler, in preparation of pulling her out, when a huge rooster shot out the other end of that pipe like he'd been fired out of a cannon. Suffice to say I was surprised.
I brought the gun up, but held off firing until the bird had crossed a stream. (Didn't feel like getting wet.) The bird was out at least 40 yards when I fired, and he did a sort of spiral before, righting himself and disappearing in the fog. I must have made a 1/4 mile detour to cross the stream over an old bridge, and get to the bank opposite from my firing point. The bird travelled a good 400 yards from where he'd been hit, and still had enough life in him to jump up 6 ft off the ground. I shot him again, knowing that if the dog ran him down she'd give him an awful chewing.
It was a quick end of the bird, but he was to liberally seasoned with #6 shot (at about 15 yards) to make a really good dish.

I shot a rooster in the fall at over 40 yards, and he travelled another 70 yards before his wings just stopped and he tumbled through the air and crashed into a tree. He was literally dead on his wings, but was able to cover some ground before death met gravity.

Birds out to 30 yards drop like rocks. Of course with a muzzleloader there is generally so much smoke, that you often hear the bird fall rather than clearly see it.

Last spring, I shot a rooster at about 40 yards, and he continued in a rising flight for at least 100 yards before he just fell out of the sky like a stone.

Pheasants are tougher than chukars, but are best taken at ranges under 40 yards...if you don't feel like a good hike to retreive them. My dog is only capable of retreiving a bird she see's go down, and her vision is limited to about 50 yards in open country. Anything further out than that means I need to find the bird, or at least bring the dog to the general area for her to scent it.

 

[Slamfire]

I cut my own wads out of orange juice of milk cartons, the waxed paper kind. I use a 9/16" circle punch for my .56 Renegade. I had some 28 gauge felt wads that I impregnated with bore butter, but found it difficult to cut them to uniform length. Now I only use the wads I make myself. :winking: