Pan priming ....

[Stumpkiller]

"frizzen not sealing tight to the pan" and letting the flash escape?? That's a joke...right?

????? If your frizzen is still closed after the flint strike you really do have odd lock geometry.

I never put any seal or wax around the pan. Beeswax makes a very nice oil when heated. And I never use ANY oil near the frizzen. Last thin I want is a frictionless frizzen face - no sparks! Better a rusty one. I just wipe it with a cloth. Just very carefully a tiny amount at the hinge bolt when I clean the lock after shooting. In bad weather I use a leather "cow's knee" to cover the lock.

For priming I prefer a good 3/4 full pan. Reliable ignition may not be the fastest, but for hunting the slight delay is worth it for 100% ignition. Pletch did some great work timing locks, and the human eyes and ears won't detect the fractional seconds a high speed camera does.

 

[Ron Nance]

I borrowed this
"mix up a cap tin worth of bees wax/bear lard (deer tallow is ok too) the consistency of peanut butter, put a SMALL bead around the pan/frizzen after its been primed and close the frizzen down on the seal."

Made me wonder if those who need a lot of priming powder, if the frizzen is not sealing tight on the pan and a lot of the flash from the powder is escaping in the space between them, versus going into the touch hole.

The use of lard/tallow is to seal the pan against water, be rain or otherwise.
The frizzen is pushed forward/open as the flint passes down it's face opening the pan so as to receive the sparks onto the priming power. Almost all flash in the pans and hang fires are operator error on my part. Most times after wiping the bore for that reason I always carry and try to remember to use a vent pick. It works for me.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

HEAT ignities the main charge, so whatever works for you, keep on doing it! I find flintlocks (have > a dozen) like women ... they each have their OWN personality!

So much so ... that I have a small tag that I affixed to the trigger guard w/ priming info for when that firelock is ‘not in use’. Simple - yes, stupid - maybe, but it works!

Now get this, I have no such issues with my matchlocks ,they all go off instantly regardless of how much charge or where placed!

 

[Le Loup]

Yesterday I set out to really experiment with my flintlock rifle to determine how to get the best and quickest ignition. It has been fired approximately 100 shots and is sighted in where I want it with an accurate load. It has also been a several hunts (where only one or two shots were taken during a week). Nonetheless, there are times when the ignition seems a little slow and I have had 8:100 "flash in the pans".

Keep in mind this does have a good cock and frizzen and a new flint. The touch-hole is of a Jim Chambers style. All this work with rifle mechanics was done already so this experiment was just related to the powder in the pan.

I did this at home and without full charges. I put 40 grains Goex FFFg down the barrel and seated a lubed cork cut to diameter (I use FFFg in the most accurate load). The important part that I was experimenting with was the pan priming. I used FFFg and FFFFg in different amounts. I also moved the initial placement in the pan. Eventually I figured out what gave repeated quick ignition.

Here is where I would like input. I ended up with FFFFg being more reliable than the FFFg. The amount of prime is what caught me off guard. I started with a thin line across the pan. I tried little "piles" near the touch-hole or in the center. Then I increased a little at a time.
This rifle seems to like two full discharges from my priming flask and that results in a nearly full pan. It also prefers a slight increase towards the touch-hole. I have read and heard so many times about 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 pan being right. I'm not sure why this rifle wants a nearly full pan.

Should I just go with it because it works? Is there any concern about this? Any theory about why it wants so much powder in the pan?

I can only say that I had the same problem. I enlarged the vent & I countersunk the vent & I have not had any problem since. I use 2FG for priming.
Keith.

 

[MSW]

I believe that Pletch (a regular contributor and a fine fellow) did some testing in this regard … it's somewhere here on this forum, but I found it in my search engine on another site … here's a link:

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-5-timing-powder-locations-in-pan/

thanks to guy like Pletch who spend their time, money and not inconsiderable talent in this sort of testing.

 

[M. De Land]

I believe that Pletch (a regular contributor and a fine fellow) did some testing in this regard … it's somewhere here on this forum, but I found it in my search engine on another site … here's a link:

https://www.blackpowdermag.com/part-5-timing-powder-locations-in-pan/

thanks to guy like Pletch who spend their time, money and not inconsiderable talent in this sort of testing.

Yes in spades! I always enjoy hearing what he has to say.

 

[Twowithone]

My Lymans GPR likes a little pinch of 4 f the more I put in the pan the longer the ignition time. Little powder faster ignition.

 

[RHensley]

The use of lard/tallow is to seal the pan against water, be rain or otherwise.
The frizzen is pushed forward/open as the flint passes down it's face opening the pan so as to receive the sparks onto the priming power. Almost all flash in the pans and hang fires are operator error on my part. Most times after wiping the bore for that reason I always carry and try to remember to use a vent pick. It works for me.

I have a some what formed peace of leather that i keep the pan area covered when caught in the rain. If it's raining before i leave to hunt I just don't go. If my rifle flit or frizzen gets wet it really doesn't spark that good and to shoot an animal and need to track in the rain there's not much of a blood trail. As for priming the pan when I'm shooting targets or hunting I put what the priming tool drops in the pan. about 2-3 grains I would guess.

 

[M. De Land]

I have a some what formed peace of leather that i keep the pan area covered when caught in the rain. If it's raining before i leave to hunt I just don't go. If my rifle flit or frizzen gets wet it really doesn't spark that good and to shoot an animal and need to track in the rain there's not much of a blood trail. As for priming the pan when I'm shooting targets or hunting I put what the priming tool drops in the pan. about 2-3 grains I would guess.

I've never hunted with a flint gun in rainy weather but was thinking if I did I'd keep the vent plugged and the pan empty until it was time to shoot. I made a cool pan charger from a 50 cal BMG case that hangs from a lanyard around my neck that makes pan priming a very quick operation.

 

[Greenjoytj]

I've never hunted with a flint gun in rainy weather but was thinking if I did I'd keep the vent plugged and the pan empty until it was time to shoot. I made a cool pan charger from a 50 cal BMG case that hangs from a lanyard around my neck that makes pan priming a very quick operation.

I rolled the wax cover off a couple of small "Baby Bell" cheese balls into a crayon shape.
I draw a line around the edge of the closed pan cover and up over the edge where the pan cover is against the side of the barrel. The wax sealed the priming from the light drizzle I was hunting in. I also took the precaution of covering the lock with a leather "cows knee" cover with the main aim to keep the striking surface of the frizzen free of water droplets.
I test fired the rifle (a Lyman GPR 54) at the end of the day it fired instantly just like a dry day. The wax on the edge of the pan worked to keep out the rain water and the humidity out of the pan. I didn't change out the pan prime during the days hunt (small game).

 

[RHensley]

I also had friend once tell me if it's just a slow drizzle you can carry the rifle upside down with the lock under your arm pit and that would keep the powder dry. I really don't know I've never tried it. How it would smell after a long day hunting I could n't say.

 

[Huntschool]

If one wishes to "dress" the lock as I do with some grease around the pan and frizzen, you should also dress the area (lock "bolster") forward and rearward of the pan as well. Water can travel down the barrel and/or sneak in from rearward of the lock. I have done this for years and had virtually no ignition problems. There was a downpour once that pretty well stopped anything from going off, even cap guns.....

Just my thoughts..

 

[Crewdawg445]

I also had friend once tell me if it's just a slow drizzle you can carry the rifle upside down with the lock under your arm pit and that would keep the powder dry. I really don't know I've never tried it. How it would smell after a long day hunting I could n't say.

Just cover you lock with a greased lock cover or cows knee. I've hunted in rain, sleet, snow and wind for years with no ignition problems other than ones caused by my own doing. You need your arms free so cradling the lock under your arm isn't the best option when traversing through the forest.

Keep the cover on the lock and barrel down until your ready to fire, simple and easy. People tend to overcomplicate a ignition system that's been around longer than all of us have been breathing air, these ignition systems are reliable and fool proof if you know what you are doing.

 

[zorares]

7f powder is great for priming, most all Line Shooters use it.

In September I shot my flintlock pistols during the rain in Friendship. Keeping the priming powder from turning to mush was a challenge. One of the top shooters told me on Monday after me telling him my problems he said that 2F, 3F AND 4F are coated to keep the powder from absorbing moisture, but that 7F was not treated. He said in high humidity to use 4F, not 7F.

Understand that 7F is a fireworks powder and has no graphite glazing to help the powder resist humidity. The Swiss Null-B (0B) priming powder is fine, granulated and glazed. A few years back the NMLRA did a test comparing lock times with various priming powders and Null-B won.

 

[FishDFly]

Actually I was shooting Null-B during the rain.

Two of the top shooters told me that Null-B is not glazed. Wonder who is correct?

It was Pletch who did the testing of various powders and locks.

At any rate, I will shoot 4F if I have to shoot in the rain.

 

[Stumpkiller]

When I hunt in the rain I prime as normal and drape a waxed leather "cow's knee" over the lock until I need to shoot.

 

[FishDFly]

When I hunt in the rain I prime as normal and drape a waxed leather "cow's knee" over the lock until I need to shoot.

 

[FishDFly]

I read with interest about folks hunting in the rain. Our deer must be sissy's, they do not come out in the rain.

 

[Black Hand]

I've never hunted with a flint gun in rainy weather but was thinking if I did I'd keep the vent plugged and the pan empty until it was time to shoot. I made a cool pan charger from a 50 cal BMG case that hangs from a lanyard around my neck that makes pan priming a very quick operation.

Why? The time to prime is BEFORE you see game. The 5-10 seconds needed to perform the manipulations will likely result in an unfilled tag and the bitter taste of disappointment instead of the delicious flavor of a medium-rare venison steak.
Just prime the pan and go - sometimes I even use a cows-knee, but usually don't.