Pantent Breech

[rancher]

What is a patent breech and what purpose do they serve? Do you need special tools to clean them like a different jag of some sort? Thanks in advace.

 

[armymedic.2]

great question, i am wondering the same things, although there is a great reply under my pedersoli ignition post, that shows a picture of one. still don;'t understand them completely though

 

[roundball]

What is a patent breech and what purpose do they serve? Do you need special tools to clean them like a different jag of some sort? Thanks in advace.

A patent breech was developed to improve ignition. (Google Nock's Patent Breech)
They have a nice side benefit of seeming to be self-cleaning...ie: shoot a 50 shot range session and never have to bother with it, never have to pick a vent, etc...after pump flushing/cleaning the barrel at the end of the day, I wrap a patch around a 30cal brush (on a regular rifle cleaning rod) and slide it down into the cone of patent breech to dry, then lube it.
TC's muzzleloaders have a form of patent breech, and their design is actually like the sketch on the left in this image:

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words. No sense trying to describe what's already been illustrated.

 

[Don B]

Does anyone have the dimensions of Lyman's patent breech? Is the bottom have a radius as shown in Roundball's sketch, or is the bottom flat?

 

[TANSTAAFL]

Nock's breech also resulted in higher velocities for a given powder charge. Have read that in effect, it produced a shaped charge with higher pressures.

 

[robinghewitt]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words. No sense trying to describe what's already been illustrated.

Yes, but the shape of that cavity is very wrong, whoever drew it was not an engineer :shake:

Baker says he did the experiments, described it to Nock and suggested he patent it. This is probably true :hatsoff:

 

[Mike Brooks]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words. No sense trying to describe what's already been illustrated.

Yes, but the shape of that cavity is very wrong, whoever drew it was not an engineer :shake:

Baker says he did the experiments, described it to Nock and suggested he patent it. This is probably true :hatsoff:

I think I read somewhere that Baker invented sliced bread too. :winking:

 

[davy]

I think I read somewhere that Baker invented sliced bread too. :winking:

Was that wheat or white? :hatsoff:

Davy

 

[davy]

Also see this thread we were talkin about some of the same stuff .. :hatsoff:
[url] http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/203385/post/last/#LAST[/url]

Davy

 

Yes, but the shape of that cavity is very wrong, whoever drew it was not an engineer :shake:

Squire - with respect that's at least the second you've made that statment - well FWIW- here's Nocks' actual Patent drawing of 1787 - (now will I be told this one is wrong too.......?) - looks an awfully like the one on the right above - while I know that existing manufactured examples are not always exactly like the drawings (tweaking of designs is almost a given as one actually begins production), but Nock did supply this drawing to the patent office.........

 

[Old Salt]

Does anyone have the dimensions of Lyman's patent breech? Is the bottom have a radius as shown in Roundball's sketch, or is the bottom flat?

I've seen the Lyman breech off the barrel and it is @ .36 caliber with a flat bottom and very tight radius where the breech cylinder meets the flat bottom.

Old Salt

 

[roundball]

Here's a look into the top of TC's breechplug...(same for the Flint plug, just no snail)

 

[robinghewitt]

FWIW- here's Nocks' actual Patent drawing of 1787 - (now will I be told this one is wrong too.......?)

Well... Um... Er... Yes it is

 

[davy]

FWIW- here's Nocks' actual Patent drawing of 1787 - (now will I be told this one is wrong too.......?)

Well... Um... Er... Yes it is

 

[robinghewitt]

Hi Davy :grin:

Here's a picture from Andrew Courtney's excellent little book, "The Modern Muzzle Loader".

Obviously drawn by someone who had taken more than a few apart, because this is what they actually look like.

best regards

Squire Robin

 

[davy]

A true Nocks breech! .. the one I pictured was RB's light pict photo of a TC breech which I had darkened so folks could see it! It was the wrong post to tie it to! :hatsoff:


BTW how is your Baker shootin?

Davy :hatsoff:

 

Hi Davy :grin:

Here's a picture from Andrew Courtney's excellent little book, "The Modern Muzzle Loader".

Obviously drawn by someone who had taken more than a few apart, because this is what they actually look like.

best regards

Squire Robin

Again with respect: as I noted above - yes actual production did vary - not unusual as production often changes/improves a product.
But Nocks original Patent drawing of 1787 is still the real McCoy - or are you implying that he didn't draw it and that the British Patent office is therefore supplying erroneous info?

 

[robinghewitt]

Hi Gray Wolf

I can see this is really important to you, so I will admit I have never taken one apart made by Mr Nock. But I think I have 3 shotguns with patent breeches by other makers, (the one in the photo is by Egg), all of which agree with Andy Courtney's picture. I'll watch out for a copy of Nock's patent, must have one somewhere, and I'll remember where it is for next time we do this :thumbsup:

best regards

Squire Robin

 

[Puffer]

What is a patent breech and what purpose do they serve? Do you need special tools to clean them like a different jag of some sort? Thanks in advace.

A patent breech was developed to improve ignition. (Google Nock's Patent Breech)
They have a nice side benefit of seeming to be self-cleaning...ie: shoot a 50 shot range session and never have to bother with it, never have to pick a vent, etc...after pump flushing/cleaning the barrel at the end of the day, I wrap a patch around a 30cal brush (on a regular rifle cleaning rod) and slide it down into the cone of patent breech to dry, then lube it.
TC's muzzleloaders have a form of patent breech, and their design is actually like the sketch on the left in this image:

I have seen this diagram in several sourses ( including George)

This IMHO, could be that the "sketch is a "gen eral drawing, or actually Nock's patern, BUT COULD IT BE that Egg "modified" it, as did the English gunmakers, for over 40 years, trying to make it better ??? (among the last being Joe Manton)This time period saw the hay day of a group of the finest gun makers & inovators in English history (IMHO) D.Egg, S.Nock,E.Baker,H.W.Mortimer,Rigby,Pattison & Manton all striving to improving the guns. Each making inovations & improving on others "patens "Mortimer happens to be one of my favorite gunmakers (as well as E.Baker) Mortimer produced guns with Patten"Breeches. were they "exactly like Nocks ??? Must research