Paper Cartridge shooters, how should they fit?

[DaveC]

Those are sure some big cartridge boxes, erm, "pouches" in British parlance?

Good thing there's a ventral pouch/belly box too I guess.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Originally the cartridge box carried the grenades and the belly box carried the musket cartridges. When lobbing grenades became an artillary function, a cartridge insert was added to the cartridge box.

 

[DaveC]

"Loaded for bear!"

 

[Artificer]

Originally the cartridge box carried the grenades and the belly box carried the musket cartridges. When lobbing grenades became an artillary function, a cartridge insert was added to the cartridge box.

FWIW, during the FIW, for what we call a "Belly Box," British Ordnance called that the Cartridge Box. I'm not entirely certain the term "Cartridge Pouch" was used by them in the FIW for what some folks called the Cartridge Box slung over the shoulder, but "Cartridge Pouch" was the standard term by the AWI.

Gus

 

[Stantheman86]

My 3M Masking Paper looks a hair "thinner" than the paper I used in the pictured cartridge, and also looks like its higher quality fiber. I'll have to give it a shot.

 

[spudnut]

I was able to load the ball still wrapped in the paper in my old bess from narregansett. 735 ball I lubed the paper around the ball and never had a problem even with the wood rammer.

 

[Stantheman86]

What did you use for a lube?

 

[spudnut]

Olive or neatsfoot oil beeswax mix

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm set up for a beef tallow - beeswax mix but I'm always open to new ideas

 

[Enfieldguy]

The period-correct lube was mutton tallow/beeswax. 8:1 wax to tallow ratio. The mutton tallow had a longer storage life then beef. The British Pritchett cartridge used pure beeswax. It was possible to fire 100+ Pritchett's with no loading difficulties. The cartridge is designed to control fouling build up.

I'm set up for a beef tallow - beeswax mix but I'm always open to new ideas

 

[DaveC]

I can tell you that the 8:1 ratio is too thick for a Minie/Burton bullet... It was actually made that way later during the U.S. Civil War because it is very hot in the South. Skirmishing in Texas, I've found it is too much wax, but on the other hand, it does stay put...

Some C.S.A. formulas included a 2 parts beeswax to a single part tallow.

The guy who runs Jefferson Arsenal is super good people!
He sells cakes of lubricant made the old-school way for whatever type of cartridge one cares to make!
I use his .58, .69, and and Enfield cartridge kits. I have used the beeswax/tallow lubes on Minie/Burton bullets, but typically I make my own.
A 50/50 mix, perhaps with a droplet of olive oil is a pretty decent mix, but there are others.
https://www.thejeffersonarsenal.com/

 

[Stantheman86]

I've ordered his kits pretty much just to get the forming dowel lol

I bought a 7lb jug of beef tallow for $30, I can't find mutton tallow. I usually roll up cartridges shortly before a range trip so letting them sit for months is never an issue.

I'll have to check out Jefferson Arsenals lubes, might be easier to just buy his stuff and melt it up.

 

[Stantheman86]

I'm still experimenting, I found pure Beeswax for Minies to be a pain when having to run them through the sizer to get the excess lube off.

 

[DaveC]

I hear ya, Stan. The Brits switched lubricants as often as the U.S. did... Jefferson arsenal sells a little Reece's P-nut Butter cup sized piece of 6 parts tallow to 1 part beeswax for Enfield cartridges... And the 8 parts wax to 1 part tallow used by the U.S. in the latter part of the War of the Rebellion. I think the latter is a bad lube. Even in texas?! Maybe a 50/50, or even half and half Crosco beeswax might be a good starting oint?

 

[Stantheman86]

Pure Lanolin on the wrapped ball? I just lubed a "test cartridge " with no powder to see if it migrates up the paper

 

[Grenadier1758]

My paper cartridge lube of one part bee's wax to 7 parts of olive oil when applied melted to the paper wrapped ball in the cartridge tube did not migrate into the powder part of the tube. I did tie the ball in the tube to better separate the ball from the powder.

 

[Stantheman86]

This is after almost 12 hours, the pure Lanolin "gel" didn't ruin the paper or migrate up. I may have even used too much but it seems like it's too thick to really move around. The stuff high on the cartridge is from me touching it. I could probably use half as much and keep it more toward the top of the ball.

It leaves a sticky film on your hands but people say they have used Lanolin as a patch lube. I just feared it would gum up the bore and be hard to clean out.

I wonder how just a drop of Olive oil would work without the Beeswax?

I'm really just looking for an easy method that I can just put a drop of something on my finger and lube the cartridge.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've found that the size of the ball doesn't matter IF the outside diameter of the cartridge is as Mike mentioned, just big enough to just allow itself to slide into the barrel. Supposedly "select marksmen" made a few such cartridges to fit their muskets for each engagement..., of course as the battle went on they would have to switch to standard ammo, with less paper, thus allowing them to load the now fouled barrel, but sacrificing accuracy.

LD

 

[Grenadier1758]

Actually, I have found, as the "battle goes on" in the Woods Walks and the fouling builds up, that accuracy improves and targets that I missed earlier in the walk are now being hit. It does help with the loading if I spit on the ball as I load. That moisture seems to keep fouling soft. We do make our cartridges as a unit and most are a bit undersized for the Loyalist Arms muskets. When I make my own cartridges, they are the slip fit for a clean barrel. First shots are with my cartridges and the rest are unit cartridges. I use a damp ball of tow to run a tow and toggle (string tied to the tow) to clean between firing stations. Some of the Woods Walks at Fort de Chartres require 20 or more shots to complete the shooting part of the walk. Its a lot of fun and you do get your dose of black powder smoke.

 

[Stantheman86]

20 cartridges lubed with a light Lanolin gel on the ball worked great today.

At 25 yards , which isnt far I know, I had no problem putting balls where the sight pointed.

Only one of the cartridges got "sticky" on the way down and of course it was the one I had my Dad take a video of me loading.....I think on some of my cartridges the "tail" got bunched up around the ball when loading, maybe I'll try turning them around next time.

Accuracy seemed like good , "combat acceptable" accuracy. I used 100 grains of Old Eynsford 2f. Had a healthy kick , definitely not a "casual plinker".

Fouling seemed to have little effect, even toward the end of the 20 cartridges I made , the last few glided down the bore with no problem.