Paper cartridges for Brown Bess?

[Irish John]

I recently aquired a 2nd model Brown Bess and need some help regarding loads. Can anyone point me to a tutorial on making paper cartridges for it of the type used during the 1700s? Was the ball end of the cartridge dipped in lube? Also if I load with a patched .735 ball, I need suggestions on patch material. Thanks

 

[Jasseji]

i found that a .735 with .010 patch is too thick here - needed to hammer the ball down as it just wouldnt go by itself

on the next shot i used a patch made from an old white shirt dripped in patch milk instead - accuracy with 70grain FFFg is quite well here

someone suggested using an OP wad additionally for the powder to burn better - i plan to try it next time

 

[firefoot]

Hello!
I make cartridges for the Brown Bess. The British army typically used .69 cal balls in their cartridges, it fitted down the bore easy enough for rapid loading but still had to be pushed down the bore with the rammer. I have tried shooting these and you do get very good acuaccy even with the under sized ball, the paper makes it tight enough. No lube was neccasary.

 

[Irish John]

Jim,

Can you give me some details on how you make your cartridges?

A .69 ball in the .75 Bess? That is very interesting, I would like to read on that topic. Can you point me to a source? I suspect they must have used either heavier paper or several wraps. Considering the size difference, did they load the ball first with the remaining cartridge rammed down on top of it?

 

[paulvallandigham]

You leave the ball in the paper " wrapper", tear off the other end, pour the powder down, and then stuff the paper down in front of the ball and run both the paper and ball down together. The paper forms a sort of a wad behind the ball.

To lube the "ball" somewhat, dip the ball end of the package into hot wax, or a liquid lube. Let it dry with the wet side down, so you don't foul the powder behind the ball. Wax melts at a low temperature, and will leave a wet coating on the barrel to keep the fouling soft from the black powder coming behind it. In its Cold state, it helps lubricate the bore, and center the ball in the barrel, for better accuracy.

 

[JOHN F]

the continental armories didnt reaaly dip in wax..if you use a former and hit them with a hammer you get a good cartridge....i make them alot and i suggest you get sketchbook 76 they show french and british cartridges...as far as the 69. cal it was just a barrage of lead so accurac was not an issue.the british also didnt aim they presented.. baron von steuban actually said hey take aim......

 

[JOHN F]

the continental armories didnt reaaly dip in wax..if you use a former and hit them with a hammer you get a good cartridge....i make them alot and i suggest you get sketchbook 76 they show french and british cartridges...as far as the 69. cal it was just a barrage of lead so accurac was not an issue.the british also didnt aim they presented.. baron von steuban actually said hey take aim......

 

[JOHN F]

sorry about the double post,, consulted sketchbook and they do make reference to cartridges being secured with "glue".as to what this glue is they dont say...as far as target shooting 71.5 balls dipped in "moose milk"and wrapped in pillow ticking ......

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

 

[Muskeg Stomper]

Sorry folks. :redface: I realize that even if you save these to your computer, they may not be clear enough when you try to blow them up large enough to read. I'll try to figure out a better way to post these scans on cartridge making.

 

[Irish John]

Great informaton! Thanks very much.

 

[Pigman]

I would like to see them clearer too.

 

[firefoot]

Irish John
I will try to find directions on how to make the paper cartridge. I know it's online if I can't I can send you a template with instructions, and a former. Like I said the .690 ball works well in the brown bess. The paper makes it tight enough and accruacy is very good at 50 yards. If you want pm me with your address. I send you a cartridge make "kit"
jim catania

 

[firefoot]

Ah! I found the link. For full instructions on making cartridges google fine wine and cartridges. There is very detailed instructions and a pattern for the cartrige shape before rolling. Hope this helps jim catania

 

[Irish John]

Thanks Jim, PM sent.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I am quite aware of the limits of the Continental, and European loading techniques. I thought the original poster was seeking improved accuracy, while still using paper patched balls.

I think people shooting these smoothies have to make a decision, as to they are going to try to be period correct, and historically correct in what they do with the Brown Bess, or are they going to attempt to actually get some accuracy from it.


If they want to re-enact, they are probably firing blanks, only.

If they really want accuracy, then a PRB on top of a OP wad, or filler, on top of the powder charge in the barrel, serves as a fire wall, and will be the correct choice of loading. Then do something with the bayonet lug to make a true sight out of it, and decide on how you are going to make something to reference as your rear sight. That will give you accuracy UNHEARD Of back in the days when these were the Battle Arms of the infantry. The wads or filler, will also act as a gas seal- far better than a cloth patch around the ball with these light charges of powder. Both tend to scrub the bore as they exit- although corn meal fillers are the best at this-- helping to keep it clean.

If you lube the bore with a good wax/oil based lube before the first shot, the lube will feed the cloth patch, and provide a slick surface that will NOT hold powder residue well. I have found this to be the case using my Young Country 101 lube, now sold as "Bore Butter", or " Wonderlube", when used that way in my 20 gauge fowler.

My lube does NOT foul the powder, when its loaded. And, if you are shooting at a target range, there is NO restriction on you using a Powder drop tube, to load the powder down at the bottom of the barrel without touching the sides of the bore on the way down. A drop tube will also position fillers on top of the powder without touching the bore on the way down, too. :hmm:

If you use an OP wad, make sure its at least .010" Larger in diameter than the actual bore diameter of you gun. Track of the Wolf sells fiber wads that meet these requirements. But, You HAVE TO MEASURE THE BORE OF YOU GUN, and not rely on what the factory stamps on the side of the barrel to determine its actual diameter in thousandths of an inch! :shocked2: :thumbsup:

 

[JOHN F]

hey paul ,with the paper wad and a 69 cal ball the safest place when i am shooting is in front of the target..really no ability to put any pattern together. had the same problem when i played ice hockey 20 yrs ago...goalie was the only safe one...

 

[spudnut]

Just finished about a hundred cartridges using the paper from Smiling Fox forge, they work best for me.I roll them tight around a dowl approx the size of my .735 ball,Glue the edge with a glue stick,insert a ball,Tie it off under the ball with some hemp cord,90 grains 2f then flatten the end ,glue and fold tight.These work in my bess great but wont go down a Pedersoli,Maybe with a .715.

 

[cooter]

I have a Pedersoli Bess with the short 30" barrel.

I started out using the trapezoidal paper, but now I just use a rectangle.

I have a piece of pvc pipe for a former (I really need to make one out of wood). I put a .715 ball at the end leaving about 1/2" to 3/4" of paper beyond the ball.

Roll it up, glue the long side with Elmer's white glue, then fold over and glue the paper on the end around the ball.

I usually don't tie them between the ball and the powder, unless I am loading up some buck and ball loads. Then put in the powder (85gr 2F) and fold the free end. I fold the 2 sides toward the middle and then fold the the extra at the top of the powder, like in the top picture of the diagrams above.

I smear some patch lube around the ball end. If I'm not in a hurry, after pouring in the powder, I insert the ball flush with the muzzle and tear off the extra paper, then seat with the ramrod. After a couple of shots the fouling builds up and you get a good seal :wink:

I too found that the .735 was a little too big to use with cloth patching.

 

[firefoot]

LORD Why do I waste my breath? When I said I use .690 cal balls in a rolled paper cartridge and got very good accuary that was because I actually have experiance doing this. I have consistantly hit milk jugs at 50 yards. Don't put something down unless you've actually tried it.