paper cartridges

[HistoryBuff]

This discussion came up before, but I can't find the thread. Somebody posted a good link with a procedure for making paper cartridges, but it was for blanks with 60 grains of powder. I want to make live roundball cartridges for my 20ga with up to 80 grains of powder. Can somebody point to a good step-by-step procedure for doing this?

HistoryBuff

 

[gmww]

I've been thinking the same thing. I found that the back of the Dixie Gun Works Catalog has an article on making it using cig. rolling paper. Nice idea. :v

 

[jbg]

Type in 3rd Alabama and hit your search engine. Go to the 3rd Alabama's website. Scroll down to the how-to section. You'll find directions. The whole site is outstanding. But I might be a bit biased, as I am a member of the 3rd.

 

[BS]

Goto the Muzzleloading Links forum, then: General.........

or use short cut:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/13139/

They are on the top and bottom of the General reading.

 

[Landngroove]

The July 2006 "Shooting Times" has an article about loading and making paper cartridges. Interesting.

 

[Toomuch_36]

I believe Musketman also has some diagrams on how this is done.

But I have one question JBG:
What is a 3rd Alabama man doing in New York? :rotf:
A little far from home arn't you? :blah:

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[HistoryBuff]

Thanks for the info everybody. I'll give it a try.

HistoryBuff

 

[Zonie]

A thought about paper cartridges:

I'm sure some folks will disagree with me, but IMO, if your using paper cartridges be extra careful about keeping the muzzle away from you (and others) when you reload. There may be some remaining burning pieces of paper left down in the bore from the last shot.

In over 30 years of shooting muzzleloaders, I have yet to see a muzzleloader fire while reloading although I'm sure it has happened.
I've often thought that one of the biggest reasons for the lack of accidental discharges is because there is nothing in there except powder, a patch and the ball and all of them are gone after the gun is fired.

Based on the loading proceedures for Cannons, which often do use paper or cloth bags to hold the powder there is little doubt in my mind that burning pieces of these containers are often left in the bore after the gun is fired.

If your using the paper cartridge like the Military did, where the cartridge is ripped and the powder poured down the bore, followed by the ball and paper there may not be a big risk, but if your using Nitrated paper (which is supposed to burn when the gun is fired) and ramming the powder and paper together under the ball you may be asking for problems.

 

[gmww]

Here are some photos of the article I was speaking of from Dixie Gun Works. As Zonie mentioned I too was wondering about residual embers. Also I'm wondering if you have to rip it open or if the spark will penetrate rolling paper. I know they used to rip the paper and pour the powder in. I thought it would be cool if you could just load it all intact. (Thinking out loud.) I might have to get me some rolling paper and make a small roll and test it without the bullet to see it will ignite with a percussion cap.

I don't smoke so I'm going to ask. The article seems to imply the paper is already nitrate soaked. Is that true?

 

[Russianblood]

It says right in the clipping there that all cigarette papers have been nitrated. I made some once but they did leave some paper behind in the cylinder.

 

[gmww]

I saw where it said, "...all of which have been nitrated.." Wasn't sure if that meant it came that way or if they did it.

 

[crockett]

The Dixie Gun Works Annual about two years back had an article on combustible paper cartridges and the back issues are around $5.00 but for what it is worth I'll give my experience.
A percussion cap in a pistol(straight line) exerts enough force to rupture a tin foil case and explode the powder. The tin foil theoretically isn't combustible so the ember problem shouldn't exist but the residue is bad and after a few shots the chamber is all plugged up. It was for this reason Colt gave up on the foil. The tin foil I used was not what is used in cooking but rather the very thin foil used to wrap candy.(you have to peel off the paper covering the foil)
Newsprint is fairly heavy compared to nitrated paper. I got 100% ignition with newsprint BUT lots of unburnt paper fouling. DANGEROUS.
The cigerette paper works best and is supposed to burn clean but you'll still get fouling and the burnt paper looks sort of like char and could hold an ember. Remember if you load a combustible both powder AND BULLET are in the bore, not good if there is a misfire. With a cap and ball revolver you can look in the chambers to check for residue but with a rifle/musket- not really doable.
I think one Yankee outfit in the Civil War used combustible cartiridges in their rifled muskets. Their rate of fire was so fast that the Rebs had no idea what was cooking. From what I have read this rifle/musket round would clog after a few shots but in a short firefight they were effective.
In any event, dangers are involved with either type of cartridge so think about what you are doing. The pictures in the DGW catalog show paper all bunched up in back but if you form the paper around a wood dowel you get a much better looking case.

 

[gmww]

I'm thinking with my Underhammer, the spark goes directly to the paper/powder and shouldn't be a problem igniting....I hope. I think a quick swab between shots might be in order to assist in extinguishing any ambers.....I hope. :hmm:

 

[BS]

I have shot several hundred of these with printer paper, and never caught anything on fire yet.....but it is better too be safe than sorry. Just be careful.

 

[crockett]

The less paper you use in making the paper case, the better. Get a wood dowel and cut the cigarette paper into an isocelles trapizoid with the long, gummed side on top (the glue is on the inside) and short side on the bottom. The two sides are angled out a bit. Overlap the sides and use a glue stick to hold them. On the bottom side you need a "trapdoor" or tab to fold over the back, this gets folded around the sides and glued. Add the powder charge. Stick the bullet in the top and wet the paper, the moisture goes through the paper and the gummed inside sticks to the bullet. Now you have a single layer of superthin cigarette paper that ought to burn up without a hitch. For safety I'd still swab a rifle or inspect a pistol chamber.

 

[balfouche]

a great choice for paper is the twist ties women use when they do a perm in their hair.. the paper is NITRATE TREATED !!!!! and burns like hell!! you can pick this product up at a beauty supply store-cheap.. (no wampum) also might could find a loose squaw as well... (good trade) I make a paper Ctg. for my cap & ball revolver and load the whole thing.. paper is a good filler and wad, that prevents multiple
discharges..(see squaw on latter) :shocked2:

 

[mikee51848]

The Pedersoli booklet that came with my Bess says to treat the paper with potasium nitrate (salt petre). Since this is unnecessary for re-enactments, where paper loading is not permitted, I rarely follow it. But if you're gonna use live ball & powder, you should treat your paper. I bought some thru the local Walmart's pharmacy for cheap dollars.

 

[almrl]

I recall reading somewhere that cigarette papers were treated to retard burning. I would think that the last thing you would want is to pull out your sack of Bull Durham, roll a smoke one-handed, light up and have the paper flash and drop burning tobacco down your shirt front.

One advantage, combustible or not, is loading non-standard loads when you don't have a specific flask spout. My Lyman Black Powder Handbook lists six different loads from 14 to 29 grains of ffffg for a seven and a half inch barrel .36 caliber. Once you decide on a charge you can always trim your spout.

Old Coot

 

[faw3]

potasium nitrate works ok but I use collodion , was used on the paper Sharps shells (I belive a C W used chem) and works great. Also wont leave ANY paper. Fred :hatsoff: