paper shot cups

[smokepole tc]

starting to work up loads for my new pa. fowler some suggest paper cups to hold shot read in new muzz. magazine wraps paper around aa battery uses a craft glue to hold together would scotch tape work?? any help would greatly appreciated.main goal is a spring gobbler..

 

[Robby]

oneshot, I have since, jug choked my fowlers, but I did experiment with paper shot cups with good results. I used the fairly heavy paper from 3x5 index cards any drug store sells. I cut them long enough to wrap around a properly sized dowel exactly two times. I'd leave enough material at the end of the dowel so I could crimp the paper together then give it a few raps with a little wooden mallet, no glue or tape. I carried them an a buckskin bad stuffed inside my fowling bag and never had a problem with them coming apart. Took many turkeys using them. In my experiments with glue and tape, as often as not, the whole thing would come out as a slug. Good Luck! :hatsoff:
Robby

 

[gsday]

I've used paper cups in my smooth bores.

I just use a dab of elmers glue to seal. Remember you want the shot cup to split on the initial thrust of the charge. That way it opens and separates from the shot load soon after exiting the bore.

Tape may hold it together too good. I had a couple stay together in my early experiments. They act like a big slug. Practice, practice.

I made a wooden dowel that fit my bore as a mold for the paper cups. I use the advertising cards included in magazines. Put a mark on the dowel for the proper length cup. Fold the bottom closed over the end of the dowel. The glue sticks almost immediately.

I can crank out a dozen in a few minutes.

Paper shot cup used!


Good luck

Greg

 

[gsday]

Robby is too fast!!!

Great minds . . .

 

[majg1234]

Ohio Ramrod on here taught me a trick.He uses 3 sheets of newspaper rolled and tied with kite string at both ends.I use dental floss roll the paper with a dowel just slightly smaller than my 20 bore.A single shot card over powder and over shot sack gives me about an improved modified pattern from my smoothy.Once you get he hang of it they make up quick.I carry 6 of these in a small can and powder charges in small bottles.The only other shooting item is my pan charger and off I go for tree griz or whatever :thumbsup:

 

[ny griz]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Good topic,i just read the article in muzzeloder mag.Gonna be playin now.Griz

 

[Billnpatti]

Someone, I forget who, on the forum told me about making simple shotcups using paper shopping bags that work like a dream. You measure the bore diameter of your shotgun and make a paper cross with the legs of the cross the same width as the bore of your shotgun. The length of the legs will be determined by the amount of shot you use. In use, you place your powder charge in your gun and then start the OP wad just an inch or so down the bore. Next, you center the paper cross the center of the muzzle of your shotgun and start it down with a dowell just slightly smaller than the bore of the shotgun. This will fold up the legs of the cross into a cup as it goes down the bore. Do not push it all the way down, just far enough to have the tips of the legs sticking out. Now, pour in your shot into the cup that you formed in your muzzle. The shot should completely fill but not over fill the cup. You want all of the shot inside the cup with no excess cup legs sticking up. A bit of work will tell you how long to make the legs of the cup. Once the cup is filled, you can seat it and the OP wad on top of your powder charge and then seat your OS card(s) on top of the shot. When fired, the shotcup will contain the shot as it leaves the muzzle and then the legs will open and the wind drag will cause the cup to immediately drop away and not go through your pattern.

A brief comment about how I make my OS cards. I use posterboard that I buy at Wal-Mart. I punch out my cards and then using a small punch, I punch a small hole near the edge of each card. When I load them, I use two cards and orient them so that the holes do not line up. The purpose of the holes is to cause the cards to drop away from the shot string and not go through it (actually, get in the way of the shot string and cause the shot string to go around the cards). High speed photography has shown this to happen. The holes cause the OS cards to spin out of the way of the shot. Heavy shotcups, OP wads or OS cards can possibly (and probably will) cause doughnut holes in the shot pattern.

 

[majg1234]

While we're on the subject I tried another method.I took copper tubing flared it with a flaring tube cut to the length for the amount of shot I needed 7/8, 1, 1 1/2,&17/8 ounces then by cutting strips of ticking to completely line the inside of the barrel I had Pillow ticking shot cups.OP wad and OS card/cards you were good to go.Patterns were good maybe as good as the little shot cartridges but not as easy to reload.There was a long discussion on this several month back here on the forum i believe it was tittled "Ticking shot cups".BTW you can pick these up and reuse them very often

 

[Stumpkiller]

I use shopping bag paper but in strips rather than crosses. I form them as needed at the bore with a dowel. (On top of a 1/8" over-powder & 1/2" cushion wad).

After shooting . . .

 

[AkDan]

good thread!

I too have messed with them but not to the point of finding something I liked. I tried taping and gluing and plastic shot cups, cut or uncut (the ones that cabelas sells in the kit). More often than not I'd slug or show no improvement. Its a double so jugging is out.

I have yet to try the dowel/newspaper combo or I remember someone using post it notes. I'll have to do some tinkering anyways this year as powder may be impossible to find on the east coast leg this spring. Gives me a good excuse spend more time at the range. I'd like the cyl bore a little tighter and I wouldnt complain if I could find an even better pattern with the mod barrel. Dropping powder or adding shot didnt do a thing to improve it. Tried all kinds of gimmicks with wads and I'm sure there's more to tinker with. The joys of hobbies !

I wonder how consistent it would be tying off the shotcups like that?

 

[Joel/Calgary]

I've messed with a variety of paper and card shotcups because the bores on my 16ga double are rough. Mostly, I've come back to simplicity, doing about what Stumpkiller does. I most often use dry-wall spark tape rather than paper bags, because it's tough and gives good protection, and is exactly double the width I need if I make them with no overlap, so I just cut it down that crease in the middle. JFTHOI, I want to try construction paper to see if it'll work, too. If I want to tighten the pattern somewhat, or if I'm using heavy loads, I use light card-stock: business cards, index cards, file folders, phone-book covers, and such. I usually make these about a quarter-inch wider so there's some overlap at the edges, and I often make partial cuts at the base of the two "petals" to make them easier to fold and roll, with the excess folded up around the base of the petals rather than tucked under like with the un-cut version. Either way, any of these with any stiffness are easier to load if you form them up ahead of time and roll the base on a hard surface to break over the little peaks/corners that form, then open them up flat again for carrying. Something I want to try is loading two of the stiff ones nested at right angles to see if they keep the shot better contained until it's completely clear of the muzzle - this should tighten patterns a bit further. I also made a quick-and-dirty adaptation of a device that Brown Bear developed for loading ticking shot cups, and found a plastic funnel that I could reshape a bit with heat (steam) and trim to make a shot-cup starter that pushes the cup a bit below the muzzle then reduces my tendency to spill a bit of shot occasionally.

Have fun with your experimenting.
Joel

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Oh, and another thing. The traditional observation that more shot than powder tends to tighten patterns pertains to un-choked barrels. Looking at 19th century gun writings and "standard" cartridge loading from around the time chokes became common, it appears that the dynamics of chokes are different and they may well perform better with equal-volume or somewhat heavier powder charges, or at least with reductions less than the traditional "1/3 more shot than powder".

Regards,
Joel

 

[theoldredneck]

You mentioned the barrels of your 16 double being rough, how rough are they? Reason I ask is I found an old 12 that has rusty barrels about 6" to 8" down from end of barrel. They are 30" long and I do not want to cut them if they can be cleaned up enough to shoot. They measure just smaller than a 12 gauge and the one area in the damascus barrelsis the only rust. I have them soaking in a mixture of atf and acetone to break the rust loose. Your post about using the paper shot cups in a rough bore gives me hope they can be saved.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I have horsed around with many pattern tightening ideas. Most of them seemed to work to some degree or another.

The best solution I have found is to realize that you are shooting a cylinder bored gun and load and shoot accordingly.

I load a stout 1 3/8 oz. mixture of #6s and #7½ s over 65 grains of 2F in my twenty gauge trade gun. I set my decoys at 18, 14 and 12 yards so I know the distance I am shooting.

If you want a 40 yard plus turkey gun, get a turkey choked barrel. It will save a lot of time and trouble.

 

[smokepole tc]

Thanks for all your help shot my Pa. fowler yesterday 80gr. 3f 1 1/2 #5 shot shot cup made from index card at 25 yds. 5 shots preetty consistant 3 or 4 hits in head 5 to 8 in neck.

 

[George]

Your method seems a simple and straightforward one, doesn't look like too much hassle. And you feel you get a definite improvement in patterns, tighter, more dense at longer range?

I would guess the cup would open immediately on exiting the muzzle, so what do you think the mechanism is for the improvement?

Spence

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Your method seems a simple and straightforward one, doesn't look like too much hassle. And you feel you get a definite improvement in patterns, tighter, more dense at longer range?

I would guess the cup would open immediately on exiting the muzzle, so what do you think the mechanism is for the improvement?

Spence

I won't presume to speak for Stumpkiller, but since I use a similar system (among others), may I offer my thoughts? The primary mechanism appears to be a reduction in pellet bore-scrub (especially with my 16's rough bores) with the consequent reduction in pellets lost from the effective pattern as fliers. A secondary benefit can be that if one's over-powder wadding does not seal adequately/consistently, leaking powder gasses are unlikely to get into the shot. I've seen powder-burn streaks on recovered shot protectors before I established how many "over-shot" cards of differing materials (punched from .020" pressboard, cereal boxes, and milk cartons; commercial .025" o/s cards) were needed for a consistent seal. It may also be that the paper, while soft, may be stiff enough to reduce the lateral bulging of the shot charge that one sees in the high-speed photographs as the shot exits the muzzle of an unchoked gun while still being accelerated by powder gasses, but even if it is true, I can't differentiate this from the former effects. Stiffer shotcup materials and/or designs certainly seem to have this latter effect. I also suspect that longer barrels are easier to get to pattern well unchoked because of the lower gas pressure at the muzzle reduces that lateral spreading on exit.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Stumpkiller]

Exactly. You can see from the fired paper it protects the shot from the bore walls - and vice versa. Once clear of the muzzle they tear apart and have no "cup" effect, but I do notice a pattern improvement. I think it has to be that the balls hold their shape and the outer ones don't wander as much.

 

[Mzzlldrinpa]

I've found good results using hornets nest. The gray paper nests usually hanging in trees and eaves. I have had much better groups and better looking patterns. I consistently break clay birds at 25 to 35 yds. Just something to try. The nest disappears. Does not interfere with shot.

 

[Golfswithwolves]

I've used paper cups in my smooth bores.

I just use a dab of elmers glue to seal. Remember you want the shot cup to split on the initial thrust of the charge. That way it opens and separates from the shot load soon after exiting the bore.

Tape may hold it together too good. I had a couple stay together in my early experiments. They act like a big slug. Practice, practice.

I made a wooden dowel that fit my bore as a mold for the paper cups. I use the advertising cards included in magazines. Put a mark on the dowel for the proper length cup. Fold the bottom closed over the end of the dowel. The glue sticks almost immediately.

I can crank out a dozen in a few minutes.

Paper shot cup used!


Good luck

Greg

I apologize for stepping off the topic, but I just have to comment on what a beautiful fowling piece that is!