Parker Hale 1858 Enfield .58 caliber, 2 band

[Enfield 1858]

David, Thanks so much for the reply.

My bore is .577, what size minie will give me the best accuracy? Is there much of a difference in accuracy if it's .0005, or .001, or .002 undersize? Once I know this I can get a sizing die.

I have just received some cast and sized HCB27 .575 dia, 566g Parker Hale minies from SS Firearms in New York. They have a shallow base.
They all measure .5751-.5752

They make the same minie in .577 dia.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[ResearchPress]

How do your .575 bullets fit? I'd go for as tight a fit to the bore as I can, but such that a bullet can be loaded without deformation.

For your .577 bore, I suggest a .576 die.

David

 

[Enfield 1858]

Thanks.

The minie with no lube is a loose fit.

I hot dipped some in 50/50 beeswax and olive oil, removed the excess the best I could and they are not loose.

I guess I'll order the .577 dia next time, and get a sizing die.

What lube do you use?

 

[ResearchPress]

I use a lube I found cited for black powder cartridge rifles:

5 parts beeswax - 4 parts olive oil - 1 part cookeen (UK equivalent of Crisco)

David

 

[Enfield 1858]

David, thanks for the lube mix.

Have you read this before or have any information about it?

I've read some people are using FFFg in the larger bore rifles.

Thanks



"Historic note about the granulation of black powder:
If you read original documentation you will find reference to using 2fg powder. (The #FG or FFG or FFFG refers to how fine the powder is ground. The more "F's" the finer the powder.) At the turn of the century - 1900 - the standards for measuring the granulation of powder changed.
That which they called 2fg is now equivilant to what we now call FFFg.In short... today... Fg is primarily used for cannons, FFg is cannon primer grade, FFFg is musket and revolver powder.
Reenactors shooting blanks like FFg
- because the larger grains burn slower causing more "blast" effect at the muzzle.
Competition shooters find better accuracy with FFFg
- because the finer granulation burns faster and more consistent."

 

[ResearchPress]

I know some shooters use small charge of FFFg in Enfields to good effect for short range target accuracy. With these faster burning powders it can be more difficult to control fouling.

The quoted statement "Competition shooters find better accuracy with FFFg" is a somewhat all encompassing and incorrect in my experience. The summary of powder use ("Fg is primarily used for cannons, FFg is cannon primer grade, FFFg is musket and revolver powder.") is again inaccurate in my experience.

I use:
Swiss Fg in my .45-100 BPCR
Swiss 1.5Fg or FFg in my .45 long range muzzle loading match rifles
Swiss FFg or other brand equivalents in my Enfield
Swiss FFFg in a flintlock

I shoot BPCR and LRML out to 1200 yards.
I shoot Enfield 50 to 800 yards
I shoot flintlock at 100m

I only shot a couple of Enfields matches last year, but was 3rd shooting offhand at 200 yards in an MLAGB match and won another match that was an aggregate fired prone (unsupported - i.e. no sling or other rest) at 200, 300 and 400 yards. I only offer this as observation that I get good results from my loads.

David

 

[Enfield 1858]

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it.
I'll be shooting again later this week if it warms up a little. It's suppose to be 15 degrees tomorrow, here in New York.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[ken.clements]

getting anywhere with your enfield?

 

[Enfield 1858]

The weather has been bad so I have not shot enough to really say.
I have switched to Dynamit Nobel No. 1081 caps and I like them.

I shot a couple of the swagged .5758 smooth sided pritchett style, 530g deep cavity, thin skirt Minie. These minies are consistent in size.
I hot dipped them in 50/50 beeswax/olive oil for a film coating. I half filled the deep cavity with liquid 50/50 beeswax/bore butter.
The two I shot with 60g FFg were right next to each other just missing the bull. I was the most accurate with these so far, but I need to shoot a whole lot more. I like these minies because they are the only ones I can buy that are swagged and the size at .5758 seems good.

I shot a few of the cast .5751-.5752, 566g shallow base minies and a few of the cast .5765, 566g shallow base minies lube with 50/50 beeswax/olive oil. Both of these minies have been sized.
Some were accurate some were off 3-4"

I need to work on seating them consistently.
I also need to weigh them all and weigh my charge to see if the it really weighs 60g.

Next time I shoot I'll try 65-70g of FFg and see what the difference is.

I need to order more FFg, I'm almost out.
A friend gave me a can of FFFg to try.

 

[TFoley]

'Swagged'?

BTW - the service load for the P53 and derivatives was two and one half drams - ~68gr of Fine rifle Powder [FFg these days from most makers].

tac

 

[Enfield 1858]

Oops, swaged.

"Swaging (pronunciation note below) is a forging process in which the dimensions of an item are altered using a die or dies, into which the item is forced.[1] Swaging is usually a cold working process; however, it is sometimes done as a hot working process.[2]"



It states they are .575, but they all measure .5758
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=13049

68g yes, ok.

I need a scale to measure my powder and minies.

 

[Zonie]

As several people noted, the photo forum area usually is devoted to photos and many of our members don't visit it often.

This Topic is primarily devoted to information about shooting the PH Enfield and the information being given applies to many other Civil War Rifled Muskets. With this in mind, I'm moving the topic to the Percussion Forum.

The PH Enfields are exceptionally fine guns. I own a Musketoon, 2 band and 3 band and rate them highly.
I'm glad to hear you are not going to Cone the muzzle. In my opinion, these guns are much too valuable to alter their barrel.

 

[ken.clements]

well I'm getting a PH Birmingham (I hope and Pray) in two weeks, juhu!!!!!!It's the real deal also, David checked for me in the UK. :grin: :grin:
My portmonie is going to empty and the bank account is also going to squeal, but heck I'd rather die broke with a PH than rich with nothing.
Do you happen to know if anyone makes a mould of your smooth sided Minie's. There's no one in Europe that has them ready made. I can only order them special made and thats about 350+ dollars.

 

[ken.clements]

Oops, swaged.

"Swaging (pronunciation note below) is a forging process in which the dimensions of an item are altered using a die or dies, into which the item is forced.[1] Swaging is usually a cold working process; however, it is sometimes done as a hot working process.[2]"



It states they are .575, but they all measure .5758
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_99_311_313&products_id=13049

68g yes, ok.

I need a scale to measure my powder and minies.

get the lyman 1000, you can't measure in 1/2 grains, but you can wéigh 500+ grains (minie's) and your powder to 1 grain

 

[Eterry]

58, I feel your pain, I bought a 58 musketoon (carbine)last summer, .575 minies fell down the bore and grouped terrible. I had a friend send me several swaged mines in different diameters and found .577 to be a pretty good fit. I am still trying to find an accurate load for it, winter stopped experimients.

Usually black powder is measured by volume not weight. My musket doesnt hit point of aim, yet, but my plan is to find an accurate load then adjust the sights to correct point of impact.

good luck, keep us posted,

Eterry

 

[Enfield 1858]

I ordered a coning tool from Ed Hamberg but he sent the wrong one and I returned it.
I then e-mailed Joe Wood and was going to order one from him, I included in the e-mail a description on my gun, he said DON'T do it.

I wish someone had told me earlier about not coning my specific gun.

 

[Enfield 1858]

I don't know where you would buy a Pritchett style mold.

 

[Enfield 1858]

Thanks Eterry, I'm not giving up, I'll just keep making smoke trying different things until I figure it out.

I have a few different minies lubed and ready to go. I really enjoy shooting my Enfield, I'll enjoy it even more when I become consistently accurate with it.

 

[Jason Lewis]

I don't know where you would buy a Pritchett style mold.

i would think if you just had a minie ball mould made in paper patch you would have basically the same thing.

 

[Eterry]

I would recommend getting a Lyman black powder handbook, it has lots of info re. loads, velocities, trajectories, and a section on minies and matching them to your musket. It also has some pretty good hunting stories re. black powder. I'm sure there are other black powder manuals out there but thats the only one I have experience with.

I'm casting two different minies, a Lee 500 gr in .575 and an thick skirted RCBS 500 gr. in .577. I shimmed up the Lee mold with paper and it now cast .577-.578. I lube with 50/50 mix of beeswax and synthetic motor oil, a blend I found on the NSSA website.

In the Lyman manual they done test of lubing the skirt, skirt and cavity, etc. The test show that lubing the cavity of the minie increases velocity and pressure, which would help the minie seal against the bore, to my thinking. It recommends to lube the skirt and cavity, which I do.

I'm at work and have to get on the streets, I hope this info helps.

Eterry