Patch lube?

[Walks with fire]

What is the best stuff to use for patch lube? I have a TC barrel with 1/66 twist and .010 cut rifleing. I scrubbed the barrel with a bronze brush and shooters choice to get it good and clean. I shot 2 shots at 75 yards and they were touching, then I moved out to 100 yards and it shot 8" at 100 yards for 3 shot group. It was too cold to keep shooting so I left the range. When I got home I cleaned it with soap and water until it was good and clean. I ran a few dry patches into it and I got this brown film on them. I think this is from the Bore Butter that is used on the pre-lubed patches. I thought the barrel was clean but got this gunk out of the barrel with the dry patch. I don't want this stuff building up in the barrel. It shot great the first 2 shots and then the accuracy seemed to fall apart. What should I use to get this stuff out of the barrel and what should I use for a patch lube so it won't happen again? I want to use something other than the TC Bore Butter.

 

[roundball]

It's not the bore butter...use whatever lube you like of course, but as a reference, I've used nothing but bore butter for 15 years in several TC Hawkens...works perfectly.

Sounds like 'flash rust' from not getting it dry soon enough after cleaning it with water;

Or, the bore wsasn't 100% bone dry before you applied the lube, which allowed it to continue to rust under the lube;

Or, there wasn't enough lube plastered into the bore, leaving some exposed bore wall areas exposed to air, which will cause them to rust;

When using the water cleaning method, we have to be fanatical about three steps being done 100% without question:

100% clean
100% dry
100% lubed

99% in any of those steps won't get it done.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

When I clean with hot soapy water I always find the first drying patch comes out covered with mud. I believe it is oil and fouling leached out of the pores of the metal by the heat. Whatever it is I always get it. The next patch comes out much cleaner and the third dry patch is clean.
As to lube, if there were one "best", there wouldn't be all the others. I use plain ol spit for range and rendezvous shooting and like deer tallow for a hunting lube. You will need to test fire and find what is most accurate in your rifle, the opinions of others are based on other rifles. That is the interesting part. :grin:

 

[Landngroove]

I also get that brown on my drying patch, after cleaning with hot soapy water. I recently started to run a patch with Shooters Choice Black Powder Cleaning Gel thru, followed by dry patches, after cleaning in hot water. I follow this up with Clenzoil, to protect the bore from rust. I have been using Hoppe's # 9 plus as a patch lubricant, and find that it works well, subsequent loads, load easy, and you can also use it to swab the bore between shots, if necssary.

 

[Jacobite]

I use rendered bear oil. I clean with hot water and simple green or other cleaner. I dry well and then run more patches the next day. I don't put anything on the clean barrel.

 

[Toomuch_36]

What is the best stuff to use for patch lube? I have a TC barrel with 1/66 twist and .010 cut rifleing. I scrubbed the barrel with a bronze brush and shooters choice to get it good and clean. I shot 2 shots at 75 yards and they were touching, then I moved out to 100 yards and it shot 8" at 100 yards for 3 shot group. It was too cold to keep shooting so I left the range. When I got home I cleaned it with soap and water until it was good and clean. I ran a few dry patches into it and I got this brown film on them. I think this is from the Bore Butter that is used on the pre-lubed patches. I thought the barrel was clean but got this gunk out of the barrel with the dry patch. I don't want this stuff building up in the barrel. It shot great the first 2 shots and then the accuracy seemed to fall apart. What should I use to get this stuff out of the barrel and what should I use for a patch lube so it won't happen again? I want to use something other than the TC Bore Butter.

Please don't get me wrong, if bore butter works for you and you trust it then use it, but many of my customers have had the same problem using it. The problem comes from the use of the wintergreen oil. Being a plant oil its purpose in nature is to attract moisture and it retains this function in the lubes in which it is used, and being an oil traps it anginst the metal parts of your rifle.
To get rid of this clean your barrel thouroghly with normal to luke warm water and a good black powder solvent. Rinse completely (untill patches come out clean) with hot water (as hot as the tap can produce) to heat up the barrel and open the pours of the metal. Dry with a fresh cleaning patch, while the barrel is still hot, and oil generously with a good quality gun oil. Let the barrel stand and cool while you attend to the lock. As the barrel cools most of the oil will be drawn back into the steel, wipe again with a lightly oiled cleaning patch and reassemble your rifle and your done.
Using this procedure each time you're done shooting should cure the problem.
I don't particulary like to push one product over another, and I don't usually use a patch lube myself (except spit) excepting for hunting in freezing weather. The lube I like to use is "Old Trappers", this was developed by the man who tought me muzzleloading and I did most of the testing on it myself. It will not melt in the barrel from cumbustion, and it will not freeze.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint

 

[Swampman]

That's because hot soapy water causes rust. Plain tepid water doesn't. The best patch lube is 1/3 each olive oil, lard, & bee's wax. In the winter you may have to add some olive oil. It also woks on chapped lips, leather, shoes, and anything else you wish to grease.

 

[Griz]

I had the same problem, I stopped useing BB and switched to Lehigh Valley patch lube 7 years ago and NEVER had that problem since, and it won't freeze in your barrel either, Just my .02

 

[roundball]

The problem comes from the use of the wintergreen oil. Being a plant oil its purpose in nature is to attract moisture and it retains this function in the lubes in which it is used, and being an oil traps it anginst the metal parts of your rifle.

:grin: You're kidding, right?

 

[Toomuch_36]

The problem comes from the use of the wintergreen oil. Being a plant oil its purpose in nature is to attract moisture and it retains this function in the lubes in which it is used, and being an oil traps it anginst the metal parts of your rifle.

:grin: You're kidding, right?

Not this time Roundball, many of my customers have had this problem, and has been verified by independent lab studies.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

 

[roundball]

The problem comes from the use of the wintergreen oil. Being a plant oil its purpose in nature is to attract moisture and it retains this function in the lubes in which it is used, and being an oil traps it anginst the metal parts of your rifle.

:grin: You're kidding, right?

Not this time Roundball, many of my customers have had this problem, and has been verified by independent lab studies.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

You should post the web site for those lab tests...and for sure we need to bring this to the attention of OxYoke who's been selling it for lord knows how many years.
:grin:

Obviously the lab tests you referenced don't reflect reality...not when I can personally point to 15 years continuous use of bore butter...and when I use it I intentionally use a popcicle stick or screwdriver tip to scoop extra bore butter out of a tube and reach into the muzzle to pack it into the grooves themselves...so by the 'oil of wintergreen' theory my bores should have rusted from the inside out to the bluing long ago.
:grin:

Another real life example of it's actual success is a Knight rifle that laid lubed in it's case untouched for 4 years until I sold it...bore was still perfect...gobbed with natural lube and still perfect.

Neither OxYoke nor I know much about plants causing rust in rifles...but I do know this...a lot of people's rifles rust because of improper[url] care...plain[/url] and simple.

And I've yet to meet a single one who will stand up on their hind legs and admit it...they always look for a scapegoat...this lube or that reason, or I loaned it to my brother-in-law who forgot to clean it, etc, etc...never met a shooter yet who admitted he'd screwed up.

The reason bores rust is because one of these three conditions failed to be achieved/maintained:

100% clean
100% dried
100% lubed

If any one of those three steps are not done correctly, there will be rust.

:thumbsup:

 

[Old40Rod]

"Sounds like 'flash rust' from not getting it dry soon enough after cleaning it with water..."

If you use a water based cleaning process, get clean patches, and then reddish-brown patches, RB is right on the money IMHO. Probably not the bore butter (I don't use bore butter at all anymore and sometimes I will still see a brown patch after a clean one). In my experience you are more likely to get flash rust no if you are using hot water to clean with no matter how fast you dry it.

 

[Wehrmacht]

100% Cleaned
100% Dried
100% Lubed

Ballistol? Anyone?

 

[Swampman]

I don't think anything that wasn't used on guns in the 18th c. is necessary or desireable really.

 

[Dave K]

Yep, all I use is Ballistol. Use it because it works for me.

 

[walter lynn]

I use standard Windex and the fouling melts completely away. Use it after every 10-15 rounds at the range. Continue shooting with lubed patches and a round ball. Lube is home brew of equal parts bees wax, olive oil and murphys soap oil. After a day at the range hit it with the Windex, run dry patches through till dry and then a lubed patch. Never had a problem. FWIW.

 

[Jacobite]

The only time I ever had rust is when I used the alcohol, peroxide, murphys oil soap mixture everyone raved about some years ago. I switched to cleaning with water and simple green or any other cleaner like it and make sure it is good and dry. I check it again the next day. I do not lube the barrel after cleaning.

 

[Toomuch_36]

The problem comes from the use of the wintergreen oil. Being a plant oil its purpose in nature is to attract moisture and it retains this function in the lubes in which it is used, and being an oil traps it anginst the metal parts of your rifle.

:grin: You're kidding, right?

Not this time Roundball, many of my customers have had this problem, and has been verified by independent lab studies.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint

You should post the web site for those lab tests...and for sure we need to bring this to the attention of OxYoke who's been selling it for lord knows how many years.
:grin:

Obviously the lab tests you referenced don't reflect reality...not when I can personally point to 15 years continuous use of bore butter...and when I use it I intentionally use a popcicle stick or screwdriver tip to scoop extra bore butter out of a tube and reach into the muzzle to pack it into the grooves themselves...so by the 'oil of wintergreen' theory my bores should have rusted from the inside out to the bluing long ago.
:grin:

Another real life example of it's actual success is a Knight rifle that laid lubed in it's case untouched for 4 years until I sold it...bore was still perfect...gobbed with natural lube and still perfect.

Neither OxYoke nor I know much about plants causing rust in rifles...but I do know this...a lot of people's rifles rust because of improper[url] care...plain[/url] and simple.

And I've yet to meet a single one who will stand up on their hind legs and admit it...they always look for a scapegoat...this lube or that reason, or I loaned it to my brother-in-law who forgot to clean it, etc, etc...never met a shooter yet who admitted he'd screwed up.

The reason bores rust is because one of these three conditions failed to be achieved/maintained:

100% clean
100% dried
100% lubed

If any one of those three steps are not done correctly, there will be rust.

:thumbsup:

I am having trouble finding my copy of this report, as I am in the process of moving, but it is an article made be Ted Knight of Modern Muzzleloading about ten or twelve years ago.

Toomuch

 

[Stumpkiller]

Plant oils attract water? So much for the old adage: "Oil and water don't mix". :winking:

 

[paulvallandigham]

be nice.