Patch or lube issue

[Britsmoothy]

A firewall can be anything within reason. I just use to send a patch down. Centered on the muzzle and rammed with the slim end of the rammer.

 

[bang]

Yeah slightly smaller ball and or thicker patch. Thicker patch more forgiving and even if tight at start will compress plus gas seal better. Good lube that resists heat. Start the ball with a short start and look at it. If it is tearing consider easing the crown.

 

[TarponStalker]

Mr. Flintlock is the greatest lube around.

Provided it is used liboriously to enlubern the patch, it WILL NOT produce burn thrus or other issues.

Please, DO NOT soil the name of Mr. Flintlock. It is the TOP muzzle loading flintlock lube ever made IMHO.

You must not have read this post in its entirety. Nobody is “soiling “ the name of this lube. Just stating facts. I’ve stated before I do like Mr Flintlock lube. Since I mainly use my rifles for hunting I cannot soak my patches as that could dampen my powder My guns may stay loaded for several days. I have used this lube for several years in other guns. While it may work great for you, one size does not fit all when it comes to muzzleloaders. Thank you for your interest

 

[TarponStalker]

Just an update. One of the generous members on this site sent me some .535 round balls to try. While they shot just fine my patches are still shredded.
Im hesitant to add more lube as I see others do. I don’t want a wet patch on top of powder that may be loaded fir a day or more when I’m hunting.
I just got a tin of Mink oil to try. I doubt this will cure everything but I wanted to try it.
ive changed powder charges from 70-90 grains. No difference.
I’m gonna try steel wool in the bore again as I still have small holes in a circle around the patch. I’ve tried smoothing the muzzle already. I also loaded a ball two inches then pulled it out. No damage there. As for a firewall I did try a patch over the powder. That really didn’t do much.
I’ll keep trying but thought I’d keep y’all informed if you’re interested. Thanks again.

 

[TarponStalker]

These are my latest groups from 35 yards Not great but not terrible. I really can’t believe they’re as tight as they are considering the way my patches look I’ll keep making small changes til it gets better

 

[Britsmoothy]

I have kept my loads loaded for weeks with olive oil and bees wax, olive oil and candle wax and olive oil and beef fat.
No powder contamination at all.

You patches are not just burnt but totally destroyed!
Remind me please, did you try a fire wall?

 

[smo]

Try a pinch of wasp nest between the powder and the patched ball..

 

[BJHabermehl]

Just an update. One of the generous members on this site sent me some .535 round balls to try. While they shot just fine my patches are still shredded.
Im hesitant to add more lube as I see others do. I don’t want a wet patch on top of powder that may be loaded fir a day or more when I’m hunting.
I just got a tin of Mink oil to try. I doubt this will cure everything but I wanted to try it.
ive changed powder charges from 70-90 grains. No difference.
I’m gonna try steel wool in the bore again as I still have small holes in a circle around the patch. I’ve tried smoothing the muzzle already. I also loaded a ball two inches then pulled it out. No damage there. As for a firewall I did try a patch over the powder. That really didn’t do much.
I’ll keep trying but thought I’d keep y’all informed if you’re interested. Thanks again.View attachment 29491View attachment 29492

I see you obtained .530 dia balls. Try them with even thicker patches, say .025 or heavy denim. Some of our club members have had success with these combos. Especially with round groove barrels. BJH

You were concerned with lube contamination, I routinely use a shirt cardboard disk under the patch and round ball combo on top of the powder. With my gun at least, no accuracy difference or point of impact change at my max hunting range of 50 yds.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Those holes are from sharp lands cutting the patch. Have you tried a smaller ball and thicker patch. Linen is a more durable material. I have a rifle that shredded cotton patches to look like pictures of your patches. Short term solution was linen from 100% flax, 0.015" thick. The linen patches didn't shred. Took about 5 years of shooting with that patch, and 0.445" ball before I could use cotton drill for patching. (I ran out of my tightly woven expensive linen.)

 

[TarponStalker]

I have kept my loads loaded for weeks with olive oil and bees wax, olive oil and candle wax and olive oil and beef fat.
No powder contamination at all.

You patches are not just burnt but totally destroyed!
Remind me please, did you try a fire wall?

No I haven’t yet. Other than I did try an additional patch on top of the powder. I’m having a hard time remembering to bring corn meal when I shoot. Lol.

 

[TarponStalker]

Those holes are from sharp lands cutting the patch. Have you tried a smaller ball and thicker patch. Linen is a more durable material. I have a rifle that shredded cotton patches to look like pictures of your patches. Short term solution was linen from 100% flax, 0.015" thick. The linen patches didn't shred. Took about 5 years of shooting with that patch, and 0.445" ball before I could use cotton drill for patching. (I ran out of my tightly woven expensive linen.)

I think my next test will be getting some RB smaller than.530. I haven’t tried patches thicker than pocket drill. I don’t know the thickness of that.

 

[TarponStalker]

I’ve used pillow ticking for other guns for years. Didn’t they use to sell “mattress” ticking that was thicker? Or was it all the same ? I use to hear that the blue/white was mattress ticking and was thicker. I have both now and they appear to be the same. Sorry but I don’t have a mic to measure patches. I’ve never needed one before.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I'm a big fan of JoAnn's #40 pocket drill. I measure the washed drill at 0.017 to 0.018" thick. It will compress a bit to around 0.012" so its pretty good for use with most patch and ball combinations. Having said that, there are times when you need the extra thickness of a denim or canvas patch measuring 0.022" to 0.025" thick..

Pillow ticking runs generally 0.015" thick and mattress ticking runs a bit thicker, maybe 0.018". These are general measurements that really need to be verified by measurement. Harbor Freight has digital calipers often on sale for $10 and you can apply their coupon. Then also have a digital mechanical micrometer that is acceptable for our use. These tools just aren't that expensive and well worth having on hand. The caliper can measure thickness and also inside diameters.

 

[TarponStalker]

I'm a big fan of JoAnn's #40 pocket drill. I measure the washed drill at 0.017 to 0.018" thick. It will compress a bit to around 0.012" so its pretty good for use with most patch and ball combinations. Having said that, there are times when you need the extra thickness of a denim or canvas patch measuring 0.022" to 0.025" thick..

Pillow ticking runs generally 0.015" thick and mattress ticking runs a bit thicker, maybe 0.018". These are general measurements that really need to be verified by measurement. Harbor Freight has digital calipers often on sale for $10 and you can apply their coupon. Then also have a digital mechanical micrometer that is acceptable for our use. These tools just aren't that expensive and well worth having on hand. The caliper can measure thickness and also inside diameters.

Thank you. I didn’t realize micrometers were that inexpensive. I guess I need one now. If nothing else just for curiosity. I tried denim patches from some old thin jeans. The load was very hard to push down to the bottom. I’ll make a trip to Joannes to see what they have. The lady that works there knows me by now.

 

[Kansas Jake]

TarponStalker it is my remembrance the red an white stuff was pillow ticking and the blue and white was usually mattress ticking. I still have a fair amount of the old mattress ticking and it is definitely thicker than the red and white I have. The blue and white stuff is at least 35 years old.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Color is relatively meaningless. Pillow or mattress ticking can have either red or blue stripes. Once I ran across some that was blue striped with a flower pattern in the stripe. I have found ticking from different manufactures that were thicker or thinner from 0.012 to 0.016 in the store. WEave density can vary quite a bit as well. Look at the ticking, denim or canvas with a light to shine through it. If you see a lot of tiny holes, the weave isn't all that thick. You want a tight weave. Linen can be a real problem when you want tight weave.

1. Look at the label on the bolt.
2. Measure.

 

[Ames]

I’ve tried smoothing the muzzle already. I also loaded a ball two inches then pulled it out. No damage there.

Well, that proves no rough part in the barrel for the first 2 inches. Push a patch and ball all the way down. Then pull it with a ball puller. Might be some rough spot halfway down the barrel that you cant see. Could be cutting the patch when shot.

And looking at the photos, if you are getting groups like that with the 54 I'd never look around for any more patches. Go shoot a couple hundred rounds and finish breaking it in. Things will work themselves out.

 

[Ames]

I'm going to ask the very dumb but obvious question here.
Theres no way you bought that Kibler as a 54 and he sent out a 58 is there? Is all that gas blowing past a 54 ball and thick patch in a 58 barrel?

 

[Yewbender]

Ames, that makes sence since both cal’s are very close in diameter.

 

[Ames]

Would be amusing if a 58 ball solved the problem. I don't own any of his guns. Do the barrels come out stamped for size? Mic that barrel!