Patched Ball accuracy @ 100yds

[Walks with fire]

I am always looking ahead for my next pause next to some cover or tree when stalking as well. Here in PA that's a couple of steps most of the time. I think every hunter knows if a shot is risky or not but some choose to shoot anyway. I know from the situation at hand immediately if I can make the shot or not and once the firearm is leveled at the game I think we all know if it's a 100% or not. I have held fire many times and will continue to do so if it doesn't feel right.

Most rifles tuned to the right components should be able to hold a 4" moa. if it's held steady enough.

 

[Walks with fire]

I lost power as I was typing some of the reply.

So; to get back to the original posters question; I think the Lyman GPR would be able to hold under 4" with the right loads. I wouldn't think a maxi is needed unless it's one of the 1/32 twist barrels. I have been shooting BP for close to 45 years now and I still remember just how bad a shot I was when I started out. A 6" group at 100 would have thrilled me back then.

Flint rifles were and are the thing here in PA and I had a heck of a time for years learning to shoot well with them. The rifles were entirely capable but I was not. LOL.

There is a lot to learn at first and there is always more to learn. The more you shoot and the more you read and study it the better you will get. Finding out what works for you is what it's all about. My Deerstalker just continues to amaze me at how well it shoots and it's not an expensive rifle either. The GPR is a good solid rifle as well. Keep shooting it.

 

[Melnic]

There is a lot to learn at first and there is always more to learn. The more you shoot and the more you read and study it the better you will get. Finding out what works for you is what it's all about. My Deerstalker just continues to amaze me at how well it shoots and it's not an expensive rifle either. The GPR is a good solid rifle as well. Keep shooting it.

This is my reason for posting and I got alot of great answers and suggestions worth looking into.
This morning I bumped the main charge up 10grains and voila. I first had my target at 50 and compared the previous charge I was using to the new one to see how much deviation there may be @ 50. Well, I took 1 shot of each @50 and they were almost touching (maybe lucky but did not have much time). Moved the target to 100 at the cease fire and got this 4 shot group. The ball runs pretty flat, I used a center hold at both 50 and 75 and in both cases, the center of the group POI is within an inch.

Could not go further, had to pack up and go to work.
But I'm pleased with this and ready to shoot this load some more and get the gong out.

 

[D Sanders]

What can tighten this up at 100yards? More experimenting?

Yes! Try changing different variable such as powder charges, patch thickness etc. If shooting with a conical proves better for you then that may be your best choice. Even so, different types and weights of bullets will perform differently from your rifle. Look and listen to your rifle. It is trying to tell you what it wants. Just be patient.

HH 60

 

[EN]

I think sometimes we are a slave to "group size". Many times when you say you have a 6" group out of lets say 3 to 5 shots fired, you are measuring from the furthest shot to the furthest shot. Not how far away each shot was to what you were aiming at. Since you are aiming at a single point on your target and with our rifles we only get one shot, you might want to measure how close each shot was to what you were shooting at. Look at that dot on the target as an aiming point. If you hit it fine but with each shot you want to come as close to it as you can. So if your furthest shot from your aiming point was 3" and your closest was 2" no matter where they hit high,low,left or right, your average would be about 2.5 inches from what you were aiming at. Be happy cuz you did good.

 

[illuveatar]

Has anyone suggested Dutch Shoultz's system yet ? It's well worth the money and will give you nearly all the pointers necessary to analyze and shrink your groups.

 

[Zonie]

Cross winds can have a big effect on where a roundball hits the target.

When most folks think of a crosswind they think of something that is strong enough to feel, blowing on them. IMO, a wind strong enough to feel like that is probably at least a 8 or 10 mile an hour breeze.

Now, slowing down to a fast walking speed like 4 mph on a still day you won't feel much wind on your face. You might not even notice it.

If it is a 4mph cross wind, the flying round ball will feel it though.

Running some numbers in my roundball trajectory calculator, if the crosswind is directly across the bullets path be it right, left, up or down here's the amount of deflection from the line of sight that a .490 diameter ball fired at 1500 fps would see:

30 yards = 0.5"
50 yards = 1.3"
70 yards = 2.5"
80 yards = 4.0"
100 yards = 4.9"

That's with only a 4 mph cross wind that is hard to feel.

With a 10 mph cross wind that is easy to feel, here's the numbers:

30 yards = 1.2"
50 yards = 3.4"
70 yards = 6.4"
80 yards = 8.1"
100 yards = 12.2"

This is why the folks who shoot competition matches have all of those little flags posted out to their targets.
It's the only way to stand a chance of figuring out what the wind is doing.

 

[don hepler]

That's the first time, that I've ever heard of accuracy, explained like that. I think you have a very good point. Practical accuracy, might be one way of thinking about it. Instead of saying, I shot a 6" group, at 100 yrds. today, say, I can keep the shots within 3" of where I'm aiming, at 100 yrds. Sounds good.

 

[joe sebia]

I firmly believe sights and sight picture have more to do with accuracy than we think (some one here said that the rifles shoot better that the shooter....how true)

In my case I have a TC hawken flinter that I shoot round ball out of. I can get very good accuracy with a moderate powder charge and tight patch (60g FF and 0.018 ticking)

 

[Melnic]

Yes, I agree that the word "accuracy" when talking about group size has been misused for many years. Yes, if your sights are off, then measure group size but once you have the sights set up, you need to look at consistency. yes, I get it.
Yes, I have Dutch's subscription. I have not fully worked up a load and fully implemented everything but I am not sure I will.

My sights are set up for about 1" high @50 and I have not been touching it just to see how consistent it shoots every time I come out. I want to see if the POI changes on me or not w/o moving the sights.
I took 1 shot at 50 and it was centered at 1" high. I then took 5 shots at the gong @ 100 yards
.
It was hitting low and realized that after shot #3 looking and seeing the disturbed dirt on the berm. Moved to aiming about 3" higher and hit on #4. Missed on #5 though.
What I need to do is spend more time on paper at 100 and see what its doing, but I just wanted to try the gong now that I had a chance in he!! to hit it.
Had to leave to work cause I overslept so had even less time this morning.

 

[necchi]

I use a Six O`clock hold, center hold doesn't make sense to me, Why cover half the target?
I have my sight set to center at 50yrds
At 100 it's 5" low.
I know this,, and adjust my aiming point for bullet drop and windage.
If I want to hit a 10" gong at 100, I aim at the top of the gong and hit center.

Judging Distance;
I make conscious effort to train my self to get distance.
I belong to a gun club with a set range, I know exactly how many steps it takes me to get to the berms.
While I'm just walking whether at the mall, gathering items in the wood or field or just out for a walk,, I'll pick an item at distance (a rock, a plant, a branch, a sign) make a mental guess at how far it is, then count paces as I approach.
It takes practice, but I've gotten pretty good at knowing what 50-75--out to 200yrds actually looks like.

 

[Melnic]

I use a Six O`clock hold, center hold doesn't make sense to me, Why cover half the target?

Easier for me to line up the center of a fuzzy dot than the bottom of a fuzzy dot. I don't always shoot at the same size black circle. Just a personal preference with what I want to do. all my fixed sight firearms I have set up for center hold if the sights are adjustable. If I'm missing, I go from there. I will agree that it is easier to adjust higher if your already pointing low though. But that's just not what I'm doing right now. Maybe I'll change, but not now.
thx

 

[Baby Huey]

What do you mean by the term "bench rest"? Are you using one of the lead sled type holders which keep the entire rifle steady or some type of sandbag rest? I find the recoil from my 50cal GPR feels much sharper if I use sandbags and can actually achieve a smaller group if I just rest both elbows on the table and hold the rifle. A friend of mine had the same experience with his own BP rifle. I am using a 490RB,018 pillow ticking patch with Crisco lube, and 70 grains FF Goex BP.

 

[Melnic]

Sand Bags front and back.
See attached pic:

I know what has caused the flyers. I marked the patches numbering them and noting the shots. I took a number of sight in shots at paper, then shot the last 4 at the gong. Can you guess which of the 4 on the right missed?

I bumped the charge up 10grains and ALL 5 of my shots were flyers, all over the place, Found the patches and they were torn to shreds.

I ran out of my pre-lubed ballistol patches and then used spit patches dropping back down the load. I shot 2 onto paper and they were very close to each other @ 100 yards. Like 2 inches. So then shot 3 at the Gong and hit all 3.

I think I'm sold on spit patches. I need to do some more shooting. I still would like to work on my lubed patches. But I'd say I don't have enough lube on them. But I'm happy with today's learning experience.

Here is a pic of the gong

 

[longcruise]

Huey, A GPR sure can hurt ya from the bench, No?

The way I deal with it is to build the whole support system very high for the forend as well as the buttstock and then add bags under my right elbow (right handed) so that I'm sitting more straight up with the right arm held high by the elbow support. That way the buttstock can go toward the bicep as it would when shooting off hand.

 

[dave524]

I've used a Lyman 57 on the back of a T/c Hawken since the 70's, I'd remove the buckhorn from the barrel it would only mess up the sight picture if you are using the peep properly.

 

[Melnic]

I've used a Lyman 57 on the back of a T/c Hawken since the 70's, I'd remove the buckhorn from the barrel it would only mess up the sight picture if you are using the peep properly.

That barrel mounted rear sight is the one that has an adjusment screw for elevation so it's not as much of a bother as you might think just looking at the pic.

I have been adjusting the barrel mounted rear sight as needed. It's really interesting with the Peep, If your barrel mounted rear sight is set up properly, then no matter where in the peep you place the front sight, the rear sight does not change much. It really illustrates the functionality of the peep.
As I got my first good load, I drifted the barrel mounted rear sight windage. The elevation is using a screw. I have the barrel mounted rear sight set for 50 yards. If I go to 100, I go 5 clicks up on the peep. I can easily tell where my rear peep is set up based on where the barrel mounted rear sight is. If my rear peep were to get knocked off position, I'd know right away something is messed up with the barrel mounted rear sight. Peep is more likely to be messed up in my eyes cause of it being so much plastic. If the rear peep broke, I could pull it off and have the other rear sight. If it were bothering me, I can just lower the barrel mounted rear sight using the screw, and it would be out of the way. So its not really a bother right now, more of an enhancement in my eyes. I just added a rear peep to my CVA hawken. My son made a dovetail mount for the tang and used a willams rear peep. I zerod both the peep and the rear sight on it (it has 2 screws on the rear sight and the peep slides with 2 screws). It really helped that rifle too (even thought that one has a crappy barrel).

 

[mooman76]

Good deal. I'm a big fan of spit patch myself but for hunting, they will dry out so need to use something else. Keep working the loads up.

 

[Toomuch51]

OK, Im pretty happy with my accuracy from the bench @50 yards, I can get typically about 2" or less group size @50 from the bench. but at 100yards, I was getting 6-8" groups on the same load the first 5 balls. Is this typical? What can tighten this up at 100yards? More experimenting? Do I need to switch to a Maxi Hunter or something? I'm just punching paper @ 50 right now, but I'd like to see how far this Rifle can stretch when hunting.
Its a Lyman GPR in .54cal.

More practice and some tinkering with charge or patch and ball (changing only one element at a time) combination will help considerably. With a good load and plenty of practice the Great Plains is well capable of (off the bench) putting all shots in the same hole at 50yd. and delivering fist size groups at 100yd.
The Lyman Great Plains has deep grove rifling so I would stay away from maxis, sabots or other conicals as with the deeper rifling they will tend to generate an increased amount of lead fouling in relation to a rifle with much shallower rifling such as a Thompson Center.

Toomuch
............
Shoot Flint

 

[Rifleman1776]

What do you mean by the term "bench rest"? Are you using one of the lead sled type holders which keep the entire rifle steady or some type of sandbag rest? I find the recoil from my 50cal GPR feels much sharper if I use sandbags and can actually achieve a smaller group if I just rest both elbows on the table and hold the rifle. A friend of mine had the same experience with his own BP rifle. I am using a 490RB,018 pillow ticking patch with Crisco lube, and 70 grains FF Goex BP.

Actually, that is a very good question.
The answer depends on what kind of shooting you are doing.
For NMLRA rules competition, a rear support is not allow. You must support the rear with your arms and body.
For working up optimum load for the best possible group, front and rear sandbags for support are probably as good as you can get. Downside is when you switch to a front only support or offhand your point of impact will probably change. Yes, it will.
For day to day shooting and hunting, I'll opin, the best rest is a front only at the point where your hand grips the forearm. And, the holding hand should grip the rifle but be resting on the sandbag. The rear should be supported by the arm and body only. This will simulate offhand shooting and still give you a good, but not competition solid, front rest.
To further answer your question. Lead sled, machine or rail gun rests are strange critters. Won't say no ml'er has ever used them but are definitely extreme measures, IMHO.