I`ve been using dry patches (.010 -100% cotton. ) lubed with bear fat & bees wax, 440 round ball in my 45 cal. flint.- shooting 40 gr. of 2f goex this thing shoots like a dream(5 shots in a 1" group off bench @ 25 yds.) My question is -when I find my fired patches they are shredded to smithereens .They don`t even resemble a round patch. Should I be concerned with this or just say the hell with it-since it`s shooting so accurately?
Patches shredded
- Thread starter bluejack
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Yes, shreaded patches means gas is getting by the ball. I would try thicker patch material that has a tight weave,.
Yes, thicker patches are in order. The shredding is caused by two very likely candidates and they have both been mentioned.
1. The patch is too thin. If the patch is not filling the grooves, then the gas blow by will tear up the patches.
2. The crown and the edges of the lands are too sharp. Those edges are cutting the patch and also making a path for gas to blow by the ball. It doesn't take much in the way of special tools and effort to smooth the crown. A couple of fine grades of wet or dry sandpaper will do the crown. Do take a look at the crown to see if there are any sharp edges.
1. The patch is too thin. If the patch is not filling the grooves, then the gas blow by will tear up the patches.
2. The crown and the edges of the lands are too sharp. Those edges are cutting the patch and also making a path for gas to blow by the ball. It doesn't take much in the way of special tools and effort to smooth the crown. A couple of fine grades of wet or dry sandpaper will do the crown. Do take a look at the crown to see if there are any sharp edges.
Greasecookie
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I had the same thing happen with a new Rice barrel, shredded patches to heck but shot like a laser beam. Don't worry, be happy. After a couple hundred shots it will stop that nonsense and stop shredding.
How old is the patch material?
I have a barrel that shredded patches many years ago. The only patches that didn't shred were my 0.015" linen patches. Now about 25 years later, my 0.018" cotton drill patches hold together well.
S.Kenton
58 Cal.
I have a lyman GPR that shreds .16 pillow ticking like a mad man. However it’s accurate as I’ll get out, I’m not gonna mess with it until summer comes... even then I may leave it be
I guess I`ll try some .015 patches and see what happens (sure like the accuracy just the way it is though) Thanks, Bluejack
If you have straight cut rifling I’d try a .445 LRB. If round cut rifling, a thicker patch. .015-.018”.
My barrel is a Rice
My 45 Lancaster has a straight cut Rice and shoots .445 LRB, 55gr 3F, .
using .010” patches lubed with Mink Oil into 1” at 50 yards and patches look good.
It needs to shoot 1" at 50yds. to be accurate. If it is a round bottom Rice barrel, a .010 patch is too thin to fill the grooves. I have several Rice barreled rifles, and they all need a thicker patch and smaller ball to allow for the thicker patch. For example on my .58 Kilber I use a .562 ball with and a .020 patch.
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I shoot muzzle loaders competitively out to 100 yards and you can get away with a lot of stuff at 25 yards that will look more like a pattern at 100 than a group. Actually a good barrel and proper load with double aperture sights or scope can produce 5 shot groups of a minute or less from a bench at 100 yards. I've seen and personally made groups in the two minute range with open sights at 100 on occasion so the rifles are capable of it. It's hard for me to be impressed with 3 and 4 minute five shot groups at this distance because I know what a good rifle and load are capable of.
Five shots are needed to begin to tell the truth and ten shots really tell the tale of a rifle and loads potential. Three shot groups are OK for sight in varification before a hunt but five shot repeated is needed to really prove out the truth about ones actual accuracy. The fliers in a 5 or better yet 10 shot group reveal far more truth about the real accuracy potential than does the probably ten fold easier to shoot, tight 3 shot group.
Once a person shoots enough and learns to call their shots they will know if it was the rifle or them that pulls a shot out of group.
I used to shoot (for a decade) Midrange black powder cartridge out to 600 yards. The first relay was off hand at 200 yards, the second sitting at 300 yards and finally prone at 600. When I got so I could shoot into the 90's offhand at two hundred 50percent or so of the time, I could accurately score myself before the spot on the target just from where the shot broke. This is not unusual for a competitive shooter and is known as calling the shot.
It is a great benefit in group shooting as well to separate the gun from the shooter.
Five shots are needed to begin to tell the truth and ten shots really tell the tale of a rifle and loads potential. Three shot groups are OK for sight in varification before a hunt but five shot repeated is needed to really prove out the truth about ones actual accuracy. The fliers in a 5 or better yet 10 shot group reveal far more truth about the real accuracy potential than does the probably ten fold easier to shoot, tight 3 shot group.
Once a person shoots enough and learns to call their shots they will know if it was the rifle or them that pulls a shot out of group.
I used to shoot (for a decade) Midrange black powder cartridge out to 600 yards. The first relay was off hand at 200 yards, the second sitting at 300 yards and finally prone at 600. When I got so I could shoot into the 90's offhand at two hundred 50percent or so of the time, I could accurately score myself before the spot on the target just from where the shot broke. This is not unusual for a competitive shooter and is known as calling the shot.
It is a great benefit in group shooting as well to separate the gun from the shooter.
chix2111
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After I built my .54 Hawken my pillow ticking lubed patches were badly shredded. I bought a whole bunch of Remington fiber over powder wads which cured the problem and improved accuracy. I kept that up for a couple seasons then tried it without the wads. No more problem. I'm thinking the bore got enough wear on it in those two seasons to smooth out the little roughness. Anyway it shoots great now. Don't know if it's what the masters recommend but it worked for me.
ohio ramrod
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Long ago I found out that an over powder wad helped with burned patches.
Can you give more information on the mink oil you use? Is it liquid or paste, does it have other ingredients? Thanks...
5 or 10 shot test groups are a thing of the past. The average of several 3 shot groups gives better information than any 10 shot group. It tends to eliminate shooter error and reveal the accuracy potential of the rifle itself. You must also know how to read groups. Only experience will teach you this. I think groups should be shot at 40 to 50 yards and be an average of 5 groups, 3 shots each. An occasional one hole group tells you exactly nothing. The ability to call each shot tells you everything, especially with a flintlock.
