Patch's won't come clean

[azmntman]

"Shoots real dead on with the tight patching too".

STOP RIGHT THERE! Thats what yer looking for, continue with the current load(ing) procedure and enjoy! Yer barrel will be fine if ya clean, DRY and oil.

 

[Carbon 6]

The black schmaltz or orange rust is not hidden away in the wee nooks and crannies of the bore. It is forced into the molecular structure of the steel itself and then sealed in there with some oil.
Dutch Schoultz

Is this possible?
Aren't the pores in steel smaller than rust, lube or carbon molecules ?

It seems to me that pitting would be the same as "nooks and crannies", and would allow for deposits to build up, but not on well maintained steel.

 

[juancho]

funny topic here. I am running an experiment going into the 4th year and counting. I made a small cannon for July 1st Canada Day. Lots of fun and great noise and air burst loads that can be heard for some distance.
Now , this is the ongoing experiment :
I decided NOT to clean the cannon AT ALL after using it the first time , to see how bad it would get. Instead , I sprayed the bore with LOTS of WD40 until it run out of the touch hole. It is made out of mild steel and the bore is 5/8" , the wall stock is over 1/2 thick and the loads never exceeded 120 grains of FFFG, never the less I set it in a safe place and light the fuse with enough time to get myself out of danger, should it burst .
I have fired it countless times in the last 4 years , and I'm yet to clean it once.
So far , not a trace of ANY rust and all I have to do is just get the black mud ( burnt powder + WD40) out of the bore before I put it to use.
Based on the results so far, I decided to try it on one of my guns for two days after a shooting session. Lots of black gunk came out of the barrel after cleaning . Only a heavy duty cleaning got rid of the black lines on the cleaning patches , but no effect whatsoever on the gun at all.
Since then , I don't use anything other than just tap /stream/ lake / river ( you get the point ) water to clean all my guns , followed by really soaked patches with WD40.
Yes, you still get that bit of black on the patches , but , no rust and same accuracy as when new. Gun does not care at all , nor do I...

 

[Britsmoothy]

funny topic here. I am running an experiment going into the 4th year and counting. I made a small cannon for July 1st Canada Day. Lots of fun and great noise and air burst loads that can be heard for some distance.
Now , this is the ongoing experiment :
I decided NOT to clean the cannon AT ALL after using it the first time , to see how bad it would get. Instead , I sprayed the bore with LOTS of WD40 until it run out of the touch hole. It is made out of mild steel and the bore is 5/8" , the wall stock is over 1/2 thick and the loads never exceeded 120 grains of FFFG, never the less I set it in a safe place and light the fuse with enough time to get myself out of danger, should it burst .
I have fired it countless times in the last 4 years , and I'm yet to clean it once.
So far , not a trace of ANY rust and all I have to do is just get the black mud ( burnt powder + WD40) out of the bore before I put it to use.
Based on the results so far, I decided to try it on one of my guns for two days after a shooting session. Lots of black gunk came out of the barrel after cleaning . Only a heavy duty cleaning got rid of the black lines on the cleaning patches , but no effect whatsoever on the gun at all.
Since then , I don't use anything other than just tap /stream/ lake / river ( you get the point ) water to clean all my guns , followed by really soaked patches with WD40.
Yes, you still get that bit of black on the patches , but , no rust and same accuracy as when new. Gun does not care at all , nor do I...

My exact findings too.
I come in from a hunt and panic not about cleaning, I just set the gun to dry in a warm environment. I too have conducted the same expermeexp and yep, no rust.
The salts in the sludge need water to become a corrosive solution and keep the water to stay as a solution. A warm environment soon removes the water so you just have dry salts down there and they can't do any harm.
That's why cleaning with copious amounts of water works, it dilutes the salts to none existence (kind of).
Flash rusting is nothing, why some barrels are rust browned on the outside and how deep is that? Not very!
If anything flash rusting may act, over time as a lapping action on any micro peaks of the steel.
Seasoning a barrel does work but not on a microscopic interaction.
The right lubricant can carry or absorbs salts. It holds them in separation or suspension. That keeps them off the steel by a great measure.
I have kept guns uncleaned for months but swabbed with an animal X vegetable mix lubricant and no rust damage has occurred.
How much I shoot muzzloaders it would be a real PITA if every time I came home the world had to stop due to fear of what is going on down in the barrel/s of my guns and set about frantically scrubbing the barrel out!

 

[PluggedNickel]

Having cleaned rifled barrels all these years, I’m really looking forward to my new smoothie!

 

[Okie Hog]

Tap water straight out of the faucet works for me!

Works for me too. Couple weeks ago i cleaned my Navy Arms Hawken:

1. One patch saturated with tap water.

2. Three dry patches.

3. One patch moist with WD-40.

Ran patch in the bore today in preparation for loading. No discoloration at all.

 

[Darkhorse]

https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ssn=easternmaineshootingsupplies&rt=nc I bought some patching from these folks to try out. So far I'm real happy with it and the price was right too.

When I get that crud in my barrel I don't beat around the bush, I just clean it out with brake cleaner and start afresh. Most of the traditional cleaning methods just won't clean that stuff out.

 

[Carbon 6]

Having cleaned rifled barrels all these years, I’m really looking forward to my new smoothie!

They are considerably easier....

 

[Mad Professor]

Anybody still use a bronze brush to get the hard to remove stuff out once in a while?

 

[azmntman]

I have/will if necessary. I swab between shots and have not had to in years. Just remember to twist the brush before pulling out to release the bristles or we will be seeing that dreaded thread on how to get a stuck brush out.

 

[Ketchakah]

Brush ? Never. Unless you leave it sit for a week.
No soap or solvent. Im a believer in the Seasoned Barrel theory, much like a cast iron pan.

 

[pinemarten]

Hello and I am back after a weekend of hunting with the flintlock here in the Upper Peninsula...
Decided to shoot awhile once I got home from the morning hunt. As I said earlier, I had used brake cleaner and tried to remove whatever leaves the darkish green streaks on the 20th plus patches (following water soak, water scrubs with patches, some Tow scrub, drying, wd-40, ....etc etc...then the 20th patch still has greenish-black streaks from the shape of rifling and never seem to come totally clean. Well...after the brake cleaner scrub...its back to the same thing again. I shot maybe just 20 shots and used a bear grease patch. Also, earlier I'd said how the heavy pillow ticking and .490 ball was hard to start (wacking short starter hard with hand to point of pain), but that I could do it and it shot well. So, today, that first shot (my hunting load) was followed by a barrel wipe using the alcohol patches, but I could not get the heavy patched .490 to start! (as stated earlier I had wondered if all the greenish black stuff was building up and preventing this, but this is just one shot!). So, I went back to the flimsy Walmart ticking and shot that. At first they burnt, tore and blew apart, I experimented with more liberal greasing of both sides and...intact patches with good accuracy!
I love figuring all this stuff out and really appreciate all the input from you experienced folks. Still not sure about all that black and green coming out on the um-teenth patch (its about as dark as pencil shading) but I won't care about it so long as I know it wont hurt my bore..(??) I don't want to spend an hour trying to get the patches to come clean if I don't have to!

Thanks for reading and any thoughts you might have!

Daniel

 

[Britsmoothy]

Really, don't worry about it.
That rifle will probably still shoot when we all are long gone!

 

[pinemarten]

Yes, you are probably right Britsmoothy! I just want to make sure I take the best care of the gun I can. I am just getting back into shooting after spending more time with my longbows... Now I am having a great time with the muzzleloader and I plan to shoot on a regular basis. The gun was made by Tom Caster back in 2015 and is a .50 cal with Getz barrel I think he said... It was a new barrel I think. I wish it wasn't so dang tight to load! I was real happy to see that greasing the patch heavy made the patch stay nice with no rips. The flimsy thin patched balls still cloverleafed the hole from the very very tight fitting heavy ticking ball I had shot (well...at 30 paces anyway!)
I wonder if all the black on the cleaning patches is just about like me taking the bottom of one of my cast iron bacon frying pans and expecting to wipe all that black off the bottom of the pan!!? Just don't want any rust and if I am supposed to be getting the patches literally clean, then I'd like to know how to do a better job...

 

[Britsmoothy]

Yes, you are probably right Britsmoothy! I just want to make sure I take the best care of the gun I can. I am just getting back into shooting after spending more time with my longbows... Now I am having a great time with the muzzleloader and I plan to shoot on a regular basis. The gun was made by Tom Caster back in 2015 and is a .50 cal with Getz barrel I think he said... It was a new barrel I think. I wish it wasn't so dang tight to load! I was real happy to see that greasing the patch heavy made the patch stay nice with no rips. The flimsy thin patched balls still cloverleafed the hole from the very very tight fitting heavy ticking ball I had shot (well...at 30 paces anyway!)
I wonder if all the black on the cleaning patches is just about like me taking the bottom of one of my cast iron bacon frying pans and expecting to wipe all that black off the bottom of the pan!!? Just don't want any rust and if I am supposed to be getting the patches literally clean, then I'd like to know how to do a better job...

That the trouble with you dang trade bowmen, all ways after perfection .
(I am an archer too).