Patterning my NWTG

[Rob M.]

Thanks, gang.

My bore mikes at exactly .615” according to my digital verniers.

Still curious about the historical plausibility of a trade gun being used with round precut cards and fiber wads… any more input would be appreciated!

For squirrel and rabbit, what is everyone’s thoughts on shot sizes? #6 has worked well for me in unmentionables but if the velocities with BP are reduced, would #5s or #4s penetrate and kill more reliably?

Was just talking to a fellow from Minnesota . He's big into trade guns too. Was talking about a bunch of barrels they , his historical society , had found up.there . Barrels still loaded . Un patched balls , no cards used , natch ....said they were all loaded with natural materials as wad or what appeared to be tow . Ive used grass on many occasions .

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Was just talking to a fellow from Minnesota . He's big into trade guns too. Was talking about a bunch of barrels they , his historical society , had found up.there . Barrels still loaded . Un patched balls , no cards used , natch ....said they were all loaded with natural materials as wad or what appeared to be tow . Ive used grass on many occasions .

Thanks, Rob. The patterns fired in the first post were all greased tow. I wanted to see what was possible using historical loading methods for this particular style of gun.

 

[Rob M.]

Yeah ,It would be interesting to try all there different loading methods and record them. Some of the fellows on this forum have tried a lot of different loads and loading techniques . Very interesting to see .... I'm always too busy building but I want to try a bunch of these different loading styles too . My ole hornets nest material has served me well for .... Lordy .... Since 94-95 so 28 years or so since I built my first trade gun . Always fun and interesting to try new stuff though . Best of luck

 

[Britsmoothy]

Leafs work well.
Our old friend Spence used cedar bark.
Endless possibilities really other than store bought or cartridge components.

 

[Yewbender]

Smokey, if and when you get to try all the different loads be sure to start a new thread and post results. Don’t forget the pictures! Have fun and make some smoke!!! Now if and when i get a chance i will be giving it a try, just to busy now.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

My advice given above is for competitive situations. I have shot a lot of skeet and sporting clays in years past. Using commercial cards and wads gave the consistency I need for shooting a pound of powder a day.
There just isn't room on the loading bench for piles of greasy tow and piles of leaves and grass! So, if you're looking for how it was done in the 18th century, I can't help you. But, don't underestimate those 18th century fowlers, they knew how to shoot a good pattern.
BTW, I had a gun with a 48" 28ga. barrel that was one of the tightest shooting guns I ever had. 70gr 3f, nitro card, lubed fiber cushion, 1 1/8oz shot and an overshot card. Incredible patterns for a cylinder bored gun. But I don't know why that was. I figured it had something to do with the barrel length.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Yeah ,It would be interesting to try all there different loading methods and record them. Some of the fellows on this forum have tried a lot of different loads and loading techniques . Very interesting to see .... I'm always too busy building but I want to try a bunch of these different loading styles too . My ole hornets nest material has served me well for .... Lordy .... Since 94-95 so 28 years or so since I built my first trade gun . Always fun and interesting to try new stuff though . Best of luck

Thanks, Rob. I haven’t tried hornets nest yet but am always finding it as I do HVAC work and find it in nooks a lot.

So for effectiveness on game, is #6 okay? Or with the reduced velocity of black powder would #5 or #4 produce better results?

 

[Rob M.]

Thanks, Rob. I haven’t tried hornets nest yet but am always finding it as I do HVAC work and find it in nooks a lot.

So for effectiveness on game, is #6 okay? Or with the reduced velocity of black powder would #5 or #4 produce better results?

#4 and 5 are tops , #4 for turkey , #5 for rest .... I just have a bunch of #6 and its fine for bunnies for me cause they are usually so close when I pop them ....#5 is better though . Funny huntin story ....back in '14 my new buddy Randy and I were squirrel huntin and I shot 4 squirrels but two of them crawled off after they hit the ground so only got 2 . After that I started using #5 ....never lost another squirrel .

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

#4 and 5 are tops , #4 for turkey , #5 for rest .... I just have a bunch of #6 and its fine for bunnies for me cause they are usually so close when I pop them ....#5 is better though .

Thanks.

 

[Rob M.]

Thanks.

Your welcome bud . Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Your welcome bud . Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks, Rob. I’ve only ever used #6 (works well) and #7.5 (not so well) in unmentionables.

 

[Rob M.]

Oh yeah ...and when I say hornets nest , its the outside material of the nest , not the inside where grubs are . Works great and even.period correct . Won't set the woods on fire either like grass , leaves are some wadding will . I see folks talking about using wasp nest on here talking g about its the authentic wadding etc. its hornets nest not wasp . Dont get me wrong you can use wasp nest if completely empty , , its similar , but its hornets nest , the outside , the old timers mention . Throw the nest proper , inside full of grubs , away or in the fire ....

Thanks, Rob. I haven’t tried hornets nest yet but am always finding it as I do HVAC work and find it in nooks a lot.

So for effectiveness on game, is #6 okay? Or with the reduced velocity of black powder would #5 or #4 produce better results?oh yeah

 

[IanH]

Or with the reduced velocity of black powder....

Black powder gives up absolutely nothing to smokeless in a shotgun unless you load it down on purpose.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Black powder gives up absolutely nothing to smokeless in a shotgun unless you load it down on purpose.

Nitro loads tend to be faster compared to muzzloaders.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Nitro loads tend to be faster compared to muzzloaders.

Depends how you load your nitro shells and how you load your muzzleloader.

 

[Banjoman]

For what it’s worth, I had a Fusil de Chasse a while back and tried all the historically/period correct wads that I could come up with. I tried wasp nest, tow, leaves, felt scraps, leather scraps, etc. Some were okay and some were poor. My best loads actually came from paper cards.

We can try all these different methods for the sake of being historically correct and it’s a lot of fun. But if we want consistent accuracy it’s good to listen to those who win competitions.

Just a free opinion.

 

[nhmoose]

I have found better results when using 1 size shot bigger than I use in an unmentionable. Kills way better, most my bird killing is with copper plated 5's.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang. Seems I might need to find some #5 shot.

Still very perplexed as to whether or not I should try fiber wads and cards in my trade gun.

I want to be authentic and period correct, but it seems such wads were at least theoretically available in some capacity during the first half of the 19th C.

But if they ever found there way into someone’s pouch for use in a trade gun seems dubious.

Thoughts?

 

[Billy-by-gosh]

Thanks, gang. Seems I might need to find some #5 shot.

Still very perplexed as to whether or not I should try fiber wads and cards in my trade gun.

I want to be authentic and period correct, but it seems such wads were at least theoretically available in some capacity during the first half of the 19th C.

But if they ever found there way into someone’s pouch for use in a trade gun seems dubious.

Thoughts?

You know, I get a little amused at myself on these issues. I already know that the original owners/users of the NWTG were ultimate pragmatists and they would use whatever worked; and if that material was not available then improvisation was necessay. Yet I find myself worrying about authenticity! The metallurgy of the barrel and lock is certainly a different alloy than the originals, but I don't let that get to my conscience. When I think about it, I can't imagine any trapper or native user feeling hide-bound to utilize a particular material to load. For what it's worth: I'm now trying to let myself relax a bit, get into the moment, and just enjoy the whole process more without feeling some kind of guilt over authenticity - seems to be more tfun this way.

 

[IanH]

I never burdened myself with that guilt in the first place. I use what I find works best.

I have wondered if the Injuns hadn't thought at some point of launching an arrow or dart with a trade gun.