Pedersoli AN IX: Killing My Flint (*PICTURES*)

[Burke888]

Hey guys,

I have a Pedersoli AN IX Pistol. I have shot it numerous occasions and here soon I will begin shooting about 50 rounds each weekend. I started using Tom Fuller English Flints, 5/8th inch. I noticed these flints lasted me about 30 shots before I would begin to get mis-fires. The 5/8th flints seemed to be hard on my frizzen, leaving some gouges in it. So I switched over to 7/8th flints. The 7/8th flints are much easier on my frizzen but they are only good for 10 to 15 shots before I have to get a new one.

I was wondering if anyone had any tips on how to make these 7/8th inch flints last longer. They are almost $2 a piece, and having to get a new one every 10 to 15 shots is very expensive.
Also, another quick question I have. My booklet that came with the pistol says to use 35 grains as a maximum charge. I have shot it with 60 grains, perhaps 30 times. Is there any downside to using 60 grains as my every day loading (50 shots a weekend)?

Thank you all very much for the help!

 

[biliff]

Need a little more information.

Are you putting in a new flint and firing until you have misfires and then swapping the flint for a new one OR are you trying to knapp the flint and still only getting 15 shots?

 

[Burke888]

Need a little more information.

Are you putting in a new flint and firing until you have misfires and then swapping the flint for a new one OR are you trying to knapp the flint and still only getting 15 shots?

I only get 15 shots, then I have to "fire" the pistol perhaps 2-4 times to get ignition. After about 30 shots it's all done. I do not knapp the flint, I do not know how.

 

[biliff]

If you want more flint life you're going to have to learn to knapp.

15-30 shots on a new flint, without knapping, is in the "normal" range, if there is such a thing as normal.

Can't put my finger on a convenient knapping thread, but if you do a forum search you'll find plenty of "how to's".

 

[ebiggs1]

If yours is like mine, it has a Mac truck leaf spring used for the frizzen. That is a big cause. I would NOT shoot 60 grs, not never. Why?

 

[Burke888]

If yours is like mine, it has a Mac truck leaf spring used for the frizzen. That is a big cause. I would NOT shoot 60 grs, not never. Why?

With no sights on the pistol, I find that I get most of my enjoyment from the "BOOM", the fire, and the impact the ball has on my reactive targets. The more powder, the more fun :grin: .

If it's not safe to feed the pistol a steady diet of 60 grain loads, then I do not want to be doing it. I had no idea myself, so I wanted to ask on here before I started.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The Easiest way to knapp a new edge on that flint, so that you get more shots- your fundamental question-- is as follows.

With the gun UNLOADED, and UNPRIMED, close the frizzen, and put the hammer at the half cock notch. Now, use your left thumb, holding the forestock and trigger guard in the palm of your LEFT hand, to lift the frizzen UP. Use the inside of the thumb nail, but make sure your thumb does NOT EXTEND BACK of the face of the frizzen. Lift the frizzen, while your Right hand holds the pistol in its normal hold on the grip, and cock the hammer back to full cock, then LOWER it until the edge of the flint is able to strike the HEEL of the frizzen. As you look at the frizzen from the right side of the lock, think of the frizzen as an imitation of the human foot and leg. The upright portion with the Face on the rear side of the upright is similar in structure to the leg; the lower part of the frizzen that seals down on the flash pan is similar to the bottom of your foot. The HEEL is where the bottom and vertical portions of the flint meet, just as your own heel is at the same junction of your leg and foot.

Hold the frizzen in that position, and cock the hammer back to full cock. Then pull the trigger.

The hammer will drive the edge of your flint down against the Heel of the frizzen, knocking off a spawl of flint from the underside of the flint, going back-rearward- from the edge of the flint, causing a new, SHARP edge to be produced.

Now, return the hammer to half cock, and close that frizzen again. Look at the distance between the edge of the new flint, and the face of the frizzen. It should be about 1/16-1/8" from the face of the frizzen. If its more than that, you need to move the flint FORWARD in the jaws of the cock, and put a wedge behind the leather wrap you are using to hold the flint and wrap in that forward position.

You should be able to get 20-30 more shots again from the flint before having to re-knapp the edge, and move the flint forward in the cock.

Other problems I see from the photos:

The Frizzen is NOT popping open when its struck, and you have " chatter marks" on the face, ie., Gouges in two different locations, one above the other, or, more properly, one below the first. That indicates that the hammer is rebounding from the frizzen after the first blow, then hitting the frizzen a second time as the frizzen is beginning to open. You want to see scrape lines, NOT GOUGES on that face. Grind or file that face smooth again, before wasting your time with a new flint. Those gouges break off lots of flint edge, and simply reduce the working life of your flints. Yes, they are expensive the way you are using them.

The lock needs to be tuned. See my article under Member Resources towards the top of the Index page. Scroll down to " Articles, Charts, and Links", and click on "Articles. You will find a table of contents. The article you will want to read is titled, Shooting a Flintlock, but its more about tuning flintlocks than just shooting them. I explain how to go about tuning your own lock by simply polishing most parts.

You don't give the caliber of the gun nor its barrel length. I would be surprised if you aren't throwing unburned powder out the muzzle with a 35 grains charge of powder. At 60 grains, you are putting on a 4th of July fireworks display. Don't waste the visuals shooting those loads in daylight! Shoot them at night so everyone can enjoy the show! :shocked2: :idunno: :hmm:

Your barrel can only burn Efficiently, 11.5 grains of powder per cubic inch of bore.
A .62 caliber pistol with a 10 inch barrel can burn about 35 grains( 34.7 grains to be exact) of powder, efficiently.

These large caliber pistols are effective in delivering lots of energy because of the large diameter, and weight of the ball fired in them, NOT the velocity they get out of that short barrel. Don't try to make some kind of magnum pistol out of these guns. They are not designed to take that kind of abuse, altho modern steels have saved more than one foolish owner from his own poor decision making about loads fired. :shocked2: :thumbsup:

 

[Burke888]

and you have " chatter marks" on the face, ie., Gouges in two different locations, one above the other, or, more properly, one below the first.

Paul,

Thank you very much for the informative reply! About these "chatter marks", I am nearly 100% certain that the lower line of gouges is from my 5/8th inch flints, which struck the frizzen at a lower point than the 7/8th inch flints. Thus, two lines of gouges have been left on the frizzen.

 

[Stubert]

Another reason not to buy Pedersoli, wonderfull lock geometry. I have two Pedersoli's and both my locks needed major tuneing, that flint is almost 90% to the frizzen, it's gonna gouge.

 

[jaw69]

I agree i took the top of my spring down to half its thickness on a belt sander. Just take it slow and put it back on and check spark. Mine opens at less than a pound of pull your may vary. Do not change the shape just thickness. :hatsoff:

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Another reason not to buy Pedersoli, wonderfull lock geometry. I have two Pedersoli's and both my locks needed major tuneing, that flint is almost 90% to the frizzen, it's gonna gouge.

It's a replica pistol, it replicates the lock of the original. I own no stock in Pedersoli but it's just not reasonable to blame them for the design of a two hundred year old lock.

 

[ebiggs1]

That may be true but I seriously doubt the 200 year old lock had a frizzen spring that strong.

 

[Emet Huntsman]

After you get ignition then it begins to falter (fire two or four times) have you been careful to wipe the face of the frizzen and the flint to clear off powder residue? It has been my experience this is the biggest reason for misfires with my flinter.
Just my 2 cents

 

[paulvallandigham]

The only(?) easy way to know what causes the two different gouge lines is to polish that frizzen face smooth, again, and try it with the flints you now use. :thumbsup:

[Well, actually, that is not exactly true. I have other ways of checking this out, but nothing that is easily explained in writing].Sorry. Paul

 

[paulvallandigham]

Replicas are NEVER exactly like the originals, Joe. There simply is NO reason to sell a gun that is intended( Marketed as a " shooter",rather than as wall-hanger, at a much reduced price)to be shot, with a lousy set of parts, JUST BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL had lousy parts. I know its done, but I avoid these, and they tend to disappear from the market within a year or so. There seems to be a non-discussed effort by domestic lock makers to improve the geometry, and performance of their locks. [See the change in design of the feather spring on the " DeLuxe" Siler Lock, sold by Chambers, compared to the Large Siler lock he sells.] A definite HIP! HIP! Hurrah!!! is due Jim Chambers on this change. An already good lock is now a VERY GOOD lock.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

Paul, Jim Chambers is building a generic lock which people may choose to fit to any firearm they build, I have one on my Bucks County rifle and it is a good lock. It also comes with very heavy springs, both main and frizzen springs. I know you're an advocate of thinning frizzen springs but Jim Chambers himself says "leave them alone, they're made that way on purpose."
Lock geometry and strength of springs are two entirely different things. If you are making a replica of a certain firearm you must use a lock which has the same size and shape. The 1803 Harpers Ferry rifles and 1805 pistols are a perfect example. They are "bashers" as is the pistol discussed here. No matter who builds the lock if it is a replica of a basher the replica lock will also be a basher.

 

[CoyoteJoe]

That may be true but I seriously doubt the 200 year old lock had a frizzen spring that strong.

And exactly what is your basis for that speculation? How many original 18th century military pistols have you examined? A military pistol would be carried all day in a belt or in saddle holsters and I'm sure I wouldn't want the frizzen to tip and spill the prime very easily. You seem to be criticizing a military replica for not being a target gun.

 

[ebiggs1]

You are correct. I have no basis for “knowing” they had weaker springs. My reasoning is they didn’t have any of the metals we have today, so likely not able to produce a spring that strong. The two I have, have extremely strong springs.

 

[tg]

There ya go again Coyote Joe, bringing facts into a guessing game :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

For what it's worth, steel of the old days has the same modulus of elasticity as modern steels. It is very close to 30,000,000 psi.

I don't expect you folks to know exactly what this figure is or what to do with it but basically it is the value that is used to figure out how much force it takes to bend a spring based on its thickness, width, length and the material it's made from.

This 30,000,000 psi value works for soft low carbon steel and high strength super tough steels.
In other words the force required to bend a steel spring is a function of the width, thickness and length of the spring.

I know you folks are saying I'm crazy but at least when it comes to these things I'm not.

So, what we end up with here is a modern spring that is 1/16 inch thick X 3/16 inches wide X 1 1/2 inches long will bend exactly the same with the same force as the same sized spring that was made in 1776 (or 1492).

For those who are interested, the Yield Strength is what makes a spring a spring.
Non-hardening steels like low carbon steels have a very low Yield strength so if they are bent very far they won't return to their original shape.
High carbon steels that are hardened and tempered have a very high Yield strength and can be bent quite a bit and still return to their original shape, but the actual force needed to bend either type of steel a given distance if the springs dimensions are the same will be exactly the same, old steel, new steel, low carbon steel or high carbon steel.

Now, back to the Feather Spring debate.