Pedersoli Bess - flash, no boom

[Chowmif16]

I'm having trouble with my Pedersoli Brown Bess. I get lots of flashes in the pan with no boom. I'd guess that it takes 3 to 5 flashes in the pan for each successful shot. Sometimes it's just one, but more often then not it takes several tries.
I enlarged the touch-hole just a tiny bit, and it seems to be placed just about right. I have tried using small priming charges and large ones. I tried placing it near and far from the touch-hole. None of those seem to make a noticeable difference.
I'm thinking of countersinking the touch-hole just a bit, like you see on touch-hole liners.
The touch hole on the Pedersoli Bess is right about at the face of the breechplug, and there is a small channel in the face of the breechplug.
I have also tried using a vent pick to open up the area of exposed powder.
In other words, I think I've tried just about every piece of advice on this forum!
Any thoughts or advice?

 

[pargent]

All the usual
1 real black powder is a must ?
2 breech clean from oil ?
3 try a fowling shot first ,just powder in the barrel ,prime and fire ,, the powder in the barrel should go off, then load with powder and ball.
4 make sure the powder charge is big enough, 90 - 110 grns of 2f.
5 when you prime run the prime powder in a line in the pan , that is from near the touch hole to the outer edge of the pan trough.


If you are getting flashes in the pan that indicates that all is well with the flint etc.. BTW is the frizzen poping all the way open ? if not then the flint is possibly too short, make sure the flint is tight as well . I hope some thing here helps

 

[Many Klatch]

My Pedersoli Bess has dependable ignition with 2F for both the main charge and the prime. If the gun is flashing the pan but the charge isn't going off then it has to be either the touch hole is too small, drill it out to 1/16" or possibly you are using one of the substitute powders not real black.

Many Klatch

 

[redneck]

place vent pick in touch hle before loading. remove and u should have no more problems

 

[Leatherbark]

Assuming you are NOT using Pyrodex or something similar. If you have shot this Bess many times you may have a thick layer of ashes coating the face of the breechplug. This will build up to the point that it blocks the touch hole. Get a flat fouling scraper to fit your ramrod and scrape the face of the breechplug clean.

Even with normal cleaning this gunk will still build up on some guns.


Bob

 

[Chowmif16]

Thank you for all the suggestions!
To answer the questions, I'm using real BP,80gr FFG main charge, and FFFFG for the prime. I once got quite frustrated an practically filled the pan with 3F. It worked, but it was very slow.
I had thought about leftover oil/grease in the breech. Maybe I'm wrong, but I had dismissed it because it still happens after a few successful shots. I figured those shots had cleaned out the oil/grease.
I don't think I have ashes in the breechplug, but that is a good thing to check. I have looked at the breechplug with a light while cleaning and it looks bright and shiny. I might try pulling the plug and looking.
I can't remember what size I opened the touch-hole to (and I'm currently on the other side of the globe until April), but I definitely made it bigger. I think 3/16.
When I get back, I will try a bigger vent pick while loading.
The gun probably only has about 30 shots through it at most. I just end up getting frustrated and switching to my Pennsylvania rifle.

Thanks again and Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[Rifleman1776]

Agree. Very unusual a 'bess would not fire. They are known for reliability.

 

[Many Klatch]

How do you clean your Bess? Hot water and soap should get all the gunk off the breechplug. A lot of the oil mixes can leave some residue.

If you have a touch hole that is flush with the face of the breech plug it wouldn't take much goo to mess up your shooting. It might take debreeching the piece and a little file work to open up the face of the breech plug at the touch hole. Not too much of course.

There could also be a burr on the inside of the touch hole that is causing problems.

A 3/16" opening should be plenty big enough.

Many Klatch

 

[BEP]

I'm sure that you don't mean "3/16ths"; you're pushing a quarter of an inch with a touch-hole that size.

 

[mike alexandre]

After a good clean and making sure you have a big enough touch hole ( I think you mean 3/32 not 3/16 ) there are 2 more things you can try - one is to store the musket barrel down - the other is to knock the butt on the ground once after putting the main charge down - this should ensure you have powder down on the breech face. Personally I wouldnt bother with any special powder for the pan. Another thing you could try is to load the barrel with the pan shut - knock the butt on the ground and see if any powder comes out of the barrel into the pan.

 

[Chowmif16]

good points, thank you.
Agreed, 3/16ths is not the number I meant. I think it was probably 3/32. I can't check it now, but essentially I just opened it up a tiny bit.

Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[mike alexandre]

3/32 is a good size as a minimum for a Bess

 

[Ike Godsey]

i am very puzzled on this.
i never ever had or heared or even saw a pedersoli bess having such problems.

i am thinking about the posibility of having the same problems a friend of mine that a metal chip in his 1757 spain musket. a metal chip (from the production prozess) was in the touch holes channel and closed it from time to time. so we unscrewed the breechplug, put the chip out, screwed the plug back in and the musket fires every time.

not saying that IS the case, but it could be. a pedersoli bess is THE gun with a nearly perfect ignition - so if it does not go off even thought the pan ignites, there must be something in the way. since it will come off from time to time, that "something in the way" must be anything hard enough to withstand the charge going off and must be able "to move a bit" so it would stop the ignation charge for the next shot.
(that "move" must be a forward one if just the pan goes off - and each time it bends the chip forward, making the way free - after "some pans" the way is more open, so the next time the main charge will go off. this shot will have enough preassure to move the chip back and the process of opening will start again...)

again, i would look for a chip...

 

[feyx0006]

Are you swabbing out the barrel before the first load? Commonly oil will pool on the breech face after cleaning, especially if stored with the stock on the floor. Pooled oil can obstruct the passage of flame into the charge. Unfortunately, just firing will not clear this oil out. In fact, as the oil mixes with BP residue, it will make more of a tar on the breech face. This will actually make it HARDER for subsequent charges to ignite. Just a thought anyway. Before loading the first time, I would definitely swab out the barrel. Some use a dry patch, others an alcohol patch. I use a "Moose Milk" patch followed by a dry one, and it seems to work great.

 

[Leatherbark]

Some people do not realize that when you push a cleaning patch down against the breecplug and "twist" the ramrod that the "Jag" spins inside the cleaning patch. There fore the patch just "kisses" the face of the breech plug.

Bob

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Fill the pan, and don't use 4Fg. Use the same size powder that you use in your main charge, and fill the pan. Photos of the pan to touch hole position would help, but until then, fill the pan with 2Fg.

LD

 

[Chowmif16]

Unfortunately, I can't do photos, as I'm in Afghanistan.
I will pull the breech plug when I get back and look for an obstruction.
I do swab the bore before my first shot, and this seems to happen even after several successful shots, so I would think that any oil/grease would be burned away.
The other suggestion that it might be ash, is a possibility, but that seems less likely based on the fact that it sometimes happens from the start, and I can see a shiny breeechplug when I clean it.
Maybe it's two problems: oil/grease for the first shot, and ash for the subsequent? Probably more likely that it is a burr or obstruction. I'll be back in April and check on it.
Since this seems to have piqued interest as an unusual occurrence for the Bess, I'll be sure to post my results.

Cheers,
Chowmi

 

[pargent]

Stay safe and well :hatsoff:

 

[steved]

I was getting inconsistent ignition with my Pedersoli Bess. On humid days it would go off like a cannon fuse. The flash hole is a traditional straight hole from the outside into the breech, and since the breech is pretty thick the flash hole is very "long" compared to the small webb of metal on a flash hole liner. So the spark has to travel a good distance to reach the main charge and since BP residue is very hygroscopic some moisture collects in the flash hole in the short time between shots. I put tradition aside and installed a Chambers White Lightning liner into mine. Haven't had a misfire since. I use it every year in demonstrations for our kids' elementary school (maybe not this year, I figure) and haven't had an embarrasing misfire in front of the kids

 

[Rifleman1776]

Some people do not realize that when you push a cleaning patch down against the breecplug and "twist" the ramrod that the "Jag" spins inside the cleaning patch. There fore the patch just "kisses" the face of the breech plug.

Bob

Not necessarily. It is a matter of proper jag/patch/bore fit. My patches twist, smoothie or rifle.