Pedersoli Kodiak .72 question

[Christiaan]

Thanks Idaho PRB,
It seems truth and fiction abounds everywhere.
Getting back to the truth of the Kodiak loads. I will like to do some intensive chrono tests with the Kodiak to see what the reality is. I'm watching this post with interest and still think 80gr is minimum for the .72 Kodiak. I do not have Paulvallandingham BP experience but the little I have shot the .72, the 80gr FFg did not look or feel stout to me. But I did not chrono it.

BillinOregon's notes looks correct to me. As soon as I can chrono the loads I'll give you feedback.

Gert van Rensburg did a lot of testing with the Kodiak and he said:
The manufacturer recommends a maximum load of 85g FF. Not disregarding safety, this does not make much sense to me. A round ball of 545g weight with a load of 80g FF will achieve a velocity in the region of 880 ft/sec with a resultant 935 ft/lbs of muzzle energy, not to mention the very poor trajectory.

His tests showed 879fps on 80gr and 1238 with 145gr FFg on the 545gr PRB. :hmm: :hmm: So maybe the "not so knowledgeable" is not so "nuts" afterall. :winking:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Idaho: Thanks for that site. Those are the pictures I was sent by Alexandre. I am relieved to know that the bear had not killed " two other people", although the third picture shown is of a dead mand whose leg had been fed on by something. And, while its a huge bear, Its also quite nice to know that we don't have 1600 lb. Grizzly's running around even Alaska. A 10 foot bear is quite large enough.

 

[mike alexandre]

Paul and Brown Bear - the pics are the same as the story I've received. rgds JM

 

[BillinOregon]

Lest we forget that our brethren in the Revolutionary War fired .735 round balls over 100 grains musket powder from their Besses ...

 

[Titus]

Although it wasnt done with a .72, the President of Powerbelt bullets recently took an elephant bull at 23 paces with a Kodiak ML rifle. The video is there to be seen on the website under Trophy Den.

 

[BillinOregon]

Titus: Thanks for the heads up on the Powerbelt elephant video. I am assuming that Mike McMichael uses a Kodiak in .58 in the clip, but have e-mailed him to confirm. That big bull went down like a sack of potatoes, no?

 

[Titus]

Bill, I think you are right on the .58 cal. For some reason it sounds familiar to me. :hmm: Please let me know if you get an answer from them. Would also be interesting to know what his charge was in that thing. The only Kodiak I ever shot was a 58 cal and it was loaded with 110gr Wano FFg. :grin:

That Elephant got one well placed shot to the head and it took a dirt nap. :shocked2: :bow:

 

[MercerLake]

:hatsoff: Thanks for the heads-up on the new sight for the Kodiak. I have a fixed open V with a U shaped notch for the rear and have a fiber optic front for close fast work. Berry-patch bears are close and most active in the early evening. In Oregon fiber optic sights and double barreled rifles are not allowed in Muzzle-loader hunts, so I use it during general seasons.

 

[windwalker_au]

bill i went rite through the photo galerey and found that the bullet used was the 530 grn dangerous game steel tip bullet and that is onley made in 50 cal.so the gun was a 50 cal,and the new ones have a 1 in 24[url] twist.in[/url] the vidio he reloads with the ready pack i think he was using pelets.
bernie :thumbsup:

 

[MercerLake]

:grin: I use a .715 ball, patched with a .010" linen, with a .030" cardboard wad over the powder. With 140 grains of 777 my chronograph shows about 1400fps, with 140 grains of FFg I get about 1250fps at 10 feet from the muzzle. I have not tried conicals yet, but velocities will be only slightly slower even though the conicals are much heavier, the pressures will be higher with the conicals.
Despite what one may hear,the.72 is not a cannon, I don't know of anyone being injured from shooting one unless you get in front of the muzzle. :haha:
If you are just shooting targets there is not much sense going for higher velocity/more recoil. With a round-ball having such a poor Ballistic coefficent as it does, a ball launched at a higher muzzle velocity will lose velocity at a higher rate than one with a lower velocity,ie: if one has a mV of 1300fps and another at a mV of 1000fps they will be within a few fps of each other at 30-50 yards. :hmm:
Developing a load so that the left and right barrel shoot to near the same point of impact is perhaps more important than trying for speed for the sake of speed.
If you are shooting things that can bite then having a big thick cloud of smoke to hide behind is helpful. :haha: Never had to run yet!

 

[PreglerD]

So it looks like the gun is more similar to a shotgun when using PRB. The college of mine did measurements too and got 1900 f/s with 777. He told me that it was a very big boom, but recoil was controlable.

 

[paulvallandigham]

For accuracy at 50 yards, or further. You are better off starting with a muzzle velocity closer to 1000 fps, and staying under that sound barrier from the beginning, rather than have to deal with the various vibrations to a ball as it comes down through the transonic zone mid range. A 1 oz round ball will penetrate further in flesh than a 1 oz conical, all other things being equal. On a broadside shot at deer, a conical slug will pass completely through the deer, leaving a huge exit hole. Only when the conical hits a leg bone, or shoulder on the off side, after penetrating lungs and heart have I seen slugs stay under the skin on the off side. If a round ball hits a near side bone before reaching the lungs and heart, I have seen about 50% of them stop inside the off side skin, but this is with 50 cal. RB. Those 1 oz. balls should act like freight trains, and just keep on going.

I don't think anyone should be working on a " tolerable " recoiling load in any ML rifle or shotgun. The recoil should be a rolling shove if you are shooting off the shoulder, and standing on two feet. Having said that, the Slug gun boys, who really do all the research and development of loading data for BP firearms these days, do push the limits with their long range shooters. When a 100 lb. gun has to be firmly held to the shoulder to avoid having that shoulder dislocated by recoil, I think we have exceeded " tolerable ".

 

[Dinohunter]

@kirrmeister: I used a Sabot for those velocity tests, this is a big advantage !!!

 

[Dinohunter]

Hello, Friends !

Kirrmeister told me about this fine forum and I´m with you quote for a while. However, my english is not the very best and so I like to apologize before I write further.

I ´m “playing” around with slug loads since 1992, when I wanted to do some paper punching with my brand new autoshotgun.

Slugloads where very expensive, much to powerful for paperpunching and extremely unaccurate.

Because I had a good knowlegde of reloading, I bought a mould, a LEE Load All and started to “make my own”!

It take my quite a time to find out, how one can produce a proper load but today I find it easy to get very good target prints at 50 Meter and “good enough for hunting” prints at 100 Meters.

A friend of mine killed a bear in Bosnia in January 2006 and several of the big bad european board have been killed with my loads ”“ as far as I know clean one shot kills.

Then I got a Kodiak Mark IV (45-70) by occasion and loved it. When I heard, there was a 72 Muzzleloader (for which I can use my slugs) I ordered a rifle.

I admid that I would prefer a Breechloader for standart 12-76 Ammo but at the other hand the Muzzleloader is quite interesting for an experiementer.

First of all, I bought different nippels because the rifle came with small ones. I felt it was necessary to change them and received musket nippels. I use the strongest caps with six small “leafs” of sheet metal.

Then I played around with soft loads and Lyman Foster Type Slugs with Paper Patches.

They printed quite good at 25 and 50 Meters.

Next step was 525 Lyman New Model Sabot Slug with a shotcup. The shotcup is a gas sealing and encreases the power a lot.

It is also a very accurate load and I begang to use more blackpowder up to 150 Grains which gives a punishing recoil.

I decided to build a kickstop and drilled a hole in the stock of .70 “. I poured lead in a copper tube, then pushed a spring in the hole, then the tube (which has a weight of about a pound) then a second spring.

The Kodiak has a metal buttplate held by to screws. When I put this back at the stock the springs where put under pressure so there is no rattel or something.

I also added a THICK slip-on rubber buttpiece.

Triple Seven is very little known in Germany so I had to place a special order and wait.

When I received the 777 I could arrange an appointment with a friend that has a key for a basement shooting range. We set up a chrony (you need special light in the basement !) and then I fired six shoots with Lyman Sabot Slug 252 Grains, Winchester Shotcup, 120 Grains 777 (Blackpowder Load of 150 Grains reduced by 15% = 777 Load; I reduced a little more).

Here what we gotfps)

1958
1933

1942
1961

1937
1949



The chrony was tested with an airrifle of known Velocity.


Next thing is that I am looking around for a peep sight but don´t know where to buy from.

I love christiaans idea but I am afraid an import from southafrika will not work!!!

Maybe I have to special order a custom peep from a german maker.

A the present time I ordered a mould from a little know german “mould smith” who will build a hollow base ajustable mould with three different weights.

I don´t know which is the “best” Kodiak but the 72 has very short bullets with little “dontknowtheword”.

Karamojo Bell told to use bullets with a length of four times the diameter.

So I would be preferable to use the 58 or 54 with long heavy bullets. But the twist rate of the Kodiak is not

Ok, sorry for my bad english !!!!

 

[Dinohunter]

Here´s the technical data:

Kaliber Züge Twist Lauflänge Gesamtlänge Gewicht
mm inches mm inches mm inches kg lbs
.50 6 600 1:24 725 28 9/16 1135 44 11/16 5.1 11.24
.54 7 600 1:24 725 28 9/16 1135 44 11/16 4.8 10.58
.58 7 1200 1:47 725 28 9/16 1135 44 11/16 4.5 9.92
.72 6 1900 1:75 650 25 9/16 1090 42 15/16 4.7 10.36

 

[Christiaan]

Dinohunter, thank you so much for sharing your passion and experience with the .72 Pedersoli Double. Your English is much better than our German so we appreciate your effort. Have you taken any game with the .72 Double?

 

[romeoh]

Hi Dinohunter! :hatsoff:

Good to have you here.

 

[BillinOregon]

Dinohunter: I agree, you are adding a lot of new experience to this thread on the .72 Kodiak. Welcome, and your English is quite understandable.

 

[PreglerD]

Hi dinohunter,

nice to read you now at this forum too. You will recognize very fast that the guys here are much more friendly as the ones at the WO-forum.

Best regards!

Kirrmeister

 

[Shifty]

Paul, in the picture that has a dead person with leg that has been fed upon take a look at the vegitation does that look like Alaska? I don't know I have never been there myself. Those Grizzlies in Montana mad me nervous thou , kind of like years ago in RVN .Shifty