Pedersoli Max Loads

[Nuthatch]

I've been doing some load development with my Pedersoli Scout in .45. One group showed some real promise at 100 yards. I was really just testing a concept, a cloth-patched conical, before ordering a custom mould. So I didn't keep very good records. But I suspect that the nice 100-yard group was with a 90 grain charge of 3F Swiss behind a 209 grain Lee .429-200.

I didn't really think much about max loads with this rifle but found later something that was saying that Pedersoli recommends not exceeding 80g 3F (Goex, not even Swiss) with round ball. Since that's well below what I'm doing, I'm wondering how much I'm gambling with safety. Granted, that load was a hit to the shoulder. The rifle itself weighs only about 5 lb. So it's not for punching paper all day. But if I can get a 5" group at 100 yards consistently, I'd be tickled to hunt with that. If, however, I'm risking my own safety in doing so, it's definitely not worth it. Any thoughts from the group here about whether those loads are more about keeping Pedersoli free of legal repercussions or are they more closely aligned with real safety concerns?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

According to Mr Rice, you can fill his barrels to the brim, install two balls and touch it off. It will not hurt the barrel.
I will never try this, but it was cool advertising. DGW has a picture of them doing this in the back of the catalog.
With 75gr of 3f and a 140gr patched round ball. I do 2050fps and a 5 inch group at 100 yards.

Why reinvent the wheel?

 

[Nuthatch]

Why reinvent the wheel?

Because I wont be hunting with the old wheel (lead).

 

[#BPBReloadingFFL]

Well you're gonna burn out nipples or vent liners fast. If the stock holds up.
More powder doesn't equal better accuracy.

Your patched conical @429 dia is a waste of time since you're going to get a custom dia mould. (What size did you have in mind)
The custom dia will not match the patched underside bullets performance.
IMPO
You would have been better off to use a LEE 45@ 452 dia then size the bullet down to 45 or a tad smaller. Maybe using your alloy it may have dropped to a smaller dia.
Lube with Alox or powder coat.

Here are the LEE specs on the REAL. As an example
Lee Double Cavity Mold produces a 45 Cal. diameter 200 grain bullet. The driving band diameters on the bullet are as follows starting from the base to the tip: .457, .462, and .467.

The 45 cal. 440 dia RB @140g lead is appx 112g in bismuth.
The 445 RB will add a few grains of weight.
If your doing this to hunt the hard RB will pass thru deer.

Quote:
So I didn't keep very good records. But I suspect that the nice 100-yard group was with a 90 grain charge of 3F Swiss behind a 209 grain Lee .429-200.end +++

Not keeping good records while working up a load doesn't help.
The .429-200 is designed for the Lyman #2 alloy.
So, what did your alloy bullet weigh?
160g

The hollow base 45 Minnie is another option. Again sized down if to big dia.

 

[Iceman]

I’m a bit confused by the Pedersoli manual. They list the scout max load as 80 in a 45 with round ball but list the max load for 50 caliber as 90 grains with round ball. Your concern could be valid as you are over the max loads listed and those loads are both for round balls not bullets. Does the longer/larger bearing surface and heavier weight of the bullet vs the round ball cause higher pressure? I doubt it’s dangerous but it may warrant further research. Do you have a friend with Quickload software, it will do black powder and substitutes, you could try to do a comparison of the listed loads vs yours.

 

[Nuthatch]

Well you're gonna burn out nipples or vent liners fast. If the stock holds up.
More powder doesn't equal better accuracy.

Your patched conical @429 dia is a waste of time since you're going to get a custom dia mould. (What size did you have in mind)
The custom dia will not match the patched underside bullets performance.
IMPO
You would have been better off to use a LEE 45@ 452 dia then size the bullet down to 45 or a tad smaller. Maybe using your alloy it may have dropped to a smaller dia.
Lube with Alox or powder coat.

Here are the LEE specs on the REAL. As an example
Lee Double Cavity Mold produces a 45 Cal. diameter 200 grain bullet. The driving band diameters on the bullet are as follows starting from the base to the tip: .457, .462, and .467.

The 45 cal. 440 dia RB @140g lead is appx 112g in bismuth.
The 445 RB will add a few grains of weight.
If your doing this to hunt the hard RB will pass thru deer.

Quote:
So I didn't keep very good records. But I suspect that the nice 100-yard group was with a 90 grain charge of 3F Swiss behind a 209 grain Lee .429-200.end +++

Not keeping good records while working up a load doesn't help.
The .429-200 is designed for the Lyman #2 alloy.
So, what did your alloy bullet weigh?
160g

The hollow base 45 Minnie is another option. Again sized down if to big dia.

There’s a history here. Suffice it to say that this wasn’t my first test run. The Lee REAL was my first. .452s were my third. .430s are my best so far. So that’s where I’m at. All your ideas are good if I was working with lead.

The nipple wear is a good point.

 

[Nuthatch]

I’m a bit confused by the Pedersoli manual. They list the scout max load as 80 in a 45 with round ball but list the max load for 50 caliber as 90 grains with round ball. Your concern could be valid as you are over the max loads listed and those loads are both for round balls not bullets. Does the longer/larger bearing surface and heavier weight of the bullet vs the round ball cause higher pressure? I doubt it’s dangerous but it may warrant further research. Do you have a friend with Quickload software, it will do black powder and substitutes, you could try to do a comparison of the listed loads vs yours.

Never heard of Quickload. I’ll have to look into that. My hunting friends do modern stuff if they do any muzzleloader stuff at all. I’m the oddball.

 

[Nuthatch]

I probably misspoke when I called it "load development." At this stage, I'm still in bullet selection. Playing with powder charges is just conceptual to see if the cloth-patched conical idea could group at all. I don't intend to stick with the Lee .429-200 as I think it's still a bit long for caliber for my 1:48. But I got a copper .430 162 gr HP to shoot okay (0.7" long) and the Lee .429-200 to shoot very well (0.6" long). I don't intend to use either beyond these experiments. But they're cheaper to experiment with. I don't really need the exact load data just yet because I don't intend to stick with either bullet. I gained valuable information in running these experiments so I'd hardly call it a waste. It's mission-accomplished in my book.

So my next step is to get a custom mould somewhere around 0.5" long in .43ish and <200 grains in lead. Once cast, I'll be keeping much better records to find out exactly what load shoots well, chrono the load and see where things start breaking down at distance and powder charges. All of this is, of course, not really the topic of this thread. For the purposes of this thread, I'm interested in the safety aspect of various loads in my rifle.

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

I've been doing some load development with my Pedersoli Scout in .45. One group showed some real promise at 100 yards. I was really just testing a concept, a cloth-patched conical, before ordering a custom mould. So I didn't keep very good records. But I suspect that the nice 100-yard group was with a 90 grain charge of 3F Swiss behind a 209 grain Lee .429-200.

I didn't really think much about max loads with this rifle but found later something that was saying that Pedersoli recommends not exceeding 80g 3F (Goex, not even Swiss) with round ball. Since that's well below what I'm doing, I'm wondering how much I'm gambling with safety. Granted, that load was a hit to the shoulder. The rifle itself weighs only about 5 lb. So it's not for punching paper all day. But if I can get a 5" group at 100 yards consistently, I'd be tickled to hunt with that. If, however, I'm risking my own safety in doing so, it's definitely not worth it. Any thoughts from the group here about whether those loads are more about keeping Pedersoli free of legal repercussions or are they more closely aligned with real safety concerns?

This may be helpful....Pedersoli Powder Charge guide

https://www.davidepedersoli.com/storage/app/uploads/public/63c/7b6/b83/63c7b6b8365bf402966806.pdf

 

[Iceman]

I probably misspoke when I called it "load development." At this stage, I'm still in bullet selection. Playing with powder charges is just conceptual to see if the cloth-patched conical idea could group at all. I don't intend to stick with the Lee .429-200 as I think it's still a bit long for caliber for my 1:48. But I got a copper .430 162 gr HP to shoot okay (0.7" long) and the Lee .429-200 to shoot very well (0.6" long). I don't intend to use either beyond these experiments. But they're cheaper to experiment with. I don't really need the exact load data just yet because I don't intend to stick with either bullet. I gained valuable information in running these experiments so I'd hardly call it a waste. It's mission-accomplished in my book.

So my next step is to get a custom mould somewhere around 0.5" long in .43ish and <200 grains in lead. Once cast, I'll be keeping much better records to find out exactly what load shoots well, chrono the load and see where things start breaking down at distance and powder charges. All of this is, of course, not really the topic of this thread. For the purposes of this thread, I'm interested in the safety aspect of various loads in my rifle.

I hope you keep the thread updated as you progress. Sounds like a very interesting concept and I am curious about the steps you will need to take to get it working and what you discover along the way.