Pedersoli owners, speak up

[Sam squanch]

Sam, you don't mean 4F for the main charge?

Yes. 4 f in that small of a bore is fine for me. I use 4 f in my 12 shotgun. Hits way harder, like a smokeless modern one. But I won’t use the same charge in an antique! See Britsmoothie’s posts about 4 f.

 

[yellowhammer]

Ed,

RE> Pedersoli's and the patent breech:

They make a nice well-finished weapon, but the $$$ cost is getting out of hand.

Pardon if I'm wrong (and experts in here correct me please), but I think all the Italian and Spanish caplock patent & chambered breeches are similar, Pedersoli, Traditions, CVA, etc. Usually either "snail" or "drum". I've learned to deal with them. It doesn't diminish my fun at all. Your Crockett uses a snail like the left view, and the "chamber" is is proportionally larger. My Traditions Shenandoah uses the "New CVA" drum style like on the right with the smaller chamber hole.

I use a small dia knurled jag like Grimford suggests to keep the channel clear, except I don't use a patch and I ground off the tip flat for a blind bottom fit. The knurl dia fits the hole pretty closely, like a reamer:

At the range, if I shoot my caplock continuously, I can get to about the 10-15th round before ignition is affected (but why push it?). Usually the drum channel from the nipple to the breech powder channel is the culprit. It loads up with a black crud "wall" first. Every time. Never had the breech powder channel choke up first - but it will be coated. This is with Goex. First, I'll run a few patches down the bore. Then I remove the nipple and the drum cleanout screw, pick and clear the drum passaged of the carbon, then run the little jag down the breech. Then blow it all out with canned air. Good to go.

But, like I said, why push it? I just relax and do the cleaning regimen every 3-4th round or so. In the woods you could take a break and do it every 3rd squirrel I would think. I myself have no obsessive compulsive need to push un-cleaned loading to some astronomical limit like some people in here. There's no life or death need for rapid-firing crudded-up dirty weapons indefinitely any more, we're popping squirrels who don't shoot back LOL.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Yellowhammer out.

 

[deGheyn]

Tell us how one is supposed to remove the crud ring that’s down below and/or are on the sides of the patch and ball by wiping after you have loaded it?

That’s something that I’m out to find out, which Pedersolis have the problem child breeches.

Wiping after loading is to limit the build up, not remove it. To remove it, i run water down the barrel out out the touch hole until it runs clean and then follow up with drying & ballistol. You might want to read this thread https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/pedersoli-patent-breech-design.131405/#post-1826522. I found it helpful. Since I started wiping over the load with a spit patch, I haven't had the misfire issues I had wiping before the load.

 

[yellowhammer]

...After a lot of searching on this forum, I have found out that you should not wipe between shots. What you have to do is wipe after loading, thus pushing the fowling on top of the ball and shooting it out...

No offense deGheyn, but I tried that method, and sure, you get a clean bore and easy loading, but it does NOTHING to help the fouling in the breech, channel, drum, touch hole, etc area - in other words everything behind the patch and ball still clogs up the same. Including the crud ring Etipp is refering to. I found it promoted attempting to shoot a crudded-up breech - not good unless you like klatches, hang-fires, and pulling balls over a powder charge.

 

[Tim_IA]

And what do you have to do after 9 shots?

Gotta be cleaned to be reliable, but 9 shots for me works when squirrel hunting most of the time. We are allowed 6 in Iowa, but when I get 3 - I call it a day!

 

[Buckskinquin]

I have a 50 cal Hatfield, patent breech. It’s my understand Pedersoli bought Hatfield and use the same patent breech design. At my first shoot with it, the patent breech completely fouled. Once cleaned with water and various picks, I met a shooter that never swabbed between shots. He did however, seat the patched round ball in subsequent loads with a slightly moistened patch. He claimed this method removed some fouling and left his barrel in the same condition for each shot. So, your initial load patch will probably be a favored lube, in the event you don’t shoot the first day out. However, once in the hunt and shooting, powder, patch, lube and ball, seat with a moistened patch. Since you’ve started shooting, you’ll be doing a thorough cleaning at days end. Since using this method with my Hatfield, with its patent breech, has not plugged with fouling. Swabbing between shots on empty barrel will push fouling into the reduced size portion of your patent breech. Pouring powder into the patent breech will bring minimum fouling with it.

 

[Mule Head]

I have a nearly new ~ 98% Pedersoli Pennsylvania Dixie in .36 for sale. Reasonable.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

I own 3 Pedersoli’s, 2 caps and a flint. All good shooters and never an issue with the breech if you clean well.

 

[ETipp]

I don’t currently have a Pedersoli but have had. I have a custom 36 percussion with a simple drum breach that is more reliable with less putzing than the patent breaches I have/had. Gonna sell it soon, show you some pics if you want.

Yes, please post a pic of it.

 

[ETipp]

Ed,

RE> Pedersoli's and the patent breech:

They make a nice well-finished weapon, but the $$$ cost is getting out of hand.

Pardon if I'm wrong (and experts in here correct me please), but I think all the Italian and Spanish caplock patent & chambered breeches are similar, Pedersoli, Traditions, CVA, etc. Usually either "snail" or "drum". I've learned to deal with them. It doesn't diminish my fun at all. Your Crockett uses a snail like the left view, and the "chamber" is is proportionally larger. My Traditions Shenandoah uses the "New CVA" drum style like on the right with the smaller chamber hole.

View attachment 323333

I use a small dia knurled jag like Grimford suggests to keep the channel clear, except I don't use a patch and I ground off the tip flat for a blind bottom fit. The knurl dia fits the hole pretty closely, like a reamer:
View attachment 323329

At the range, if I shoot my caplock continuously, I can get to about the 10-15th round before ignition is affected (but why push it?). Usually the drum channel from the nipple to the breech powder channel is the culprit. It loads up with a black crud "wall" first. Every time. Never had the breech powder channel choke up first - but it will be coated. This is with Goex. First, I'll run a few patches down the bore. Then I remove the nipple and the drum cleanout screw, pick and clear the drum passaged of the carbon, then run the little jag down the breech. Then blow it all out with canned air. Good to go.

But, like I said, why push it? I just relax and do the cleaning regimen every 3-4th round or so. In the woods you could take a break and do it every 3rd squirrel I would think. I myself have no obsessive compulsive need to push un-cleaned loading to some astronomical limit like some people in here. There's no life or death need for rapid-firing crudded-up dirty weapons indefinitely any more, we're popping squirrels who don't shoot back LOL.

Sorry for the long-winded reply. Yellowhammer out.

Some great information. Thank you.

 

[ETipp]

This is

From what I understand, all of the Pedersolis don't have that stupid breech. I have the trade gun, and it does. After a lot of searching on this forum, I have found out that you should not wipe between shots. What you have to do is wipe after loading, thus pushing the fowling on top of the ball and shooting it out. Since I have started doing that, I haven't had any more issues.

This is interesting and strongly suggests that Pedersolis are a different animal then every ML I’ve ever owned. Multiple T/C’s, CVA, Lyman GPR and Traditions Crockett. All of those has never given me the first problem, in terms of breech fouling and/or anything else. Never a misfire. I do exactly what some posters in this thread contends causes issues…..wipe between shots or after every 2-3 maximum. I’ve shot my Crockett as many as 20 times and wiped between shots. Not the fist problem. Also, by doing so, I find my rifles are much easier to clean at the end of the day. In short, they are not very dirty.

This may or may not be a factor here, but I carry moist patches that has Windex on them. Usually 2 of those and 1-2 dry patches cleans the bore quite well and, as I have said, not the first issue. There is, no doubt, something different with Pedersoli rifles when compared to others, in terms of the breech systems. Heck, my first time out with my Crockett, I shot and reloaded 11 times without wiping the bore while squirrel hunting. I do not use spit patches.

Rest assured that this is not a dig at Pedersoli, for that is not the case. I’m similarly trying to figure out about these ML’s and whether or not I want to subject myself to them, as well as fork out over 1K for something that I might have problems with.

 

[Billy Boy]

Yes, please post a pic of it.

Yes, please post a pic of it.

L&R lock, Coleraine radius groove barrel, some light mileage, excellent condition, never shoot it anymore

 

[ETipp]

I have a nearly new ~ 98% Pedersoli Pennsylvania Dixie in .36 for sale. Reasonable.

Sent you a PM

 

[Mike in FL]

Yes. 4 f in that small of a bore is fine for me. I use 4 f in my 12 shotgun. Hits way harder, like a smokeless modern one. But I won’t use the same charge in an antique! See Britsmoothie’s posts about 4 f.

Well sir, I certainly learned something there.

 

[ohiochuck]

ETip
I agree -to bad Kibler does not make a .32 cal percussion squirrel rifle
JIm

 

[David LaPell]

I have an older Pedersoli Kentucky rifle, and while mine is a flintlock, they do make them in percussion and my is very accurate out to 50 yards. Last week I took a 3 x 5 index card out and smacked it a few times with that gun using a .311" roundball, 20 grains of 3F Scheutzen and a .010" patch lubed in bore butter.

 

[Grimord]

So you actually can get past that small hole with a .22 jag?

Yes, the flame channel is approximately .275

 

[ETipp]

ETip
I agree -to bad Kibler does not make a .32 cal percussion squirrel rifle
JIm

Indeed. A .36 would also be nice.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

This is

This is interesting and strongly suggests that Pedersolis are a different animal then every ML I’ve ever owned. Multiple T/C’s, CVA, Lyman GPR and Traditions Crockett. All of those has never given me the first problem, in terms of breech fouling and/or anything else. Never a misfire. I do exactly what some posters in this thread contends causes issues…..wipe between shots or after every 2-3 maximum. I’ve shot my Crockett as many as 20 times and wiped between shots. Not the fist problem. Also, by doing so, I find my rifles are much easier to clean at the end of the day. In short, they are not very dirty.

Actually no, but from what people say you get that impression. So my TC New Englander I scoped the other day. It essentially has the same breech that a Pedersoli has BUT it's a .54, while in your case there is a lot tighter tolerances due to the small caliber.

What happens with the calibers .45 and smaller, is that when folks "swab" the smaller bores, they often form a ring of crud on the patch where the edge of the jag and the barrel meet. THEN when that jag reaches the breech, a deposit can begin to form. You hunt a lot with your ML's so you know that they can each have a different set of procedures, not vastly different, but just a tad, to result in either a good, dependable game-getter, or a finicky and a little frustrating piece.

So there are two primary things I'd suggest if you get the Pedersoli. First, your ramrod should accept a cleaning brush, and I'd get a nylon brush for a .22, and carry that. Just the thing to ensure your patent breech doesn't develop a carbon ring. The second thing I'd suggest is that you start using Dawn dish washing soap as your bullet lube. Nope, not crazy. Here is a good video on why:

Magical Mystery Patch Lube

It takes so much less crud to give those small bores a real problem, and the use of Dawn appears that it will reduce them. Finally, consider polishing the Pederoli bore with some small pieces of 3M Green Dish Scrub Pad, as Pedersoli sometimes has very sharp edges on rifling lands and may cut patches.

LD

 

[ETipp]

Actually no, but from what people say you get that impression. So my TC New Englander I scoped the other day. It essentially has the same breech that a Pedersoli has BUT it's a .54, while in your case there is a lot tighter tolerances due to the small caliber.

What happens with the calibers .45 and smaller, is that when folks "swab" the smaller bores, they often form a ring of crud on the patch where the edge of the jag and the barrel meet. THEN when that jag reaches the breech, a deposit can begin to form. You hunt a lot with your ML's so you know that they can each have a different set of procedures, not vastly different, but just a tad, to result in either a good, dependable game-getter, or a finicky and a little frustrating piece.

So there are two primary things I'd suggest if you get the Pedersoli. First, your ramrod should accept a cleaning brush, and I'd get a nylon brush for a .22, and carry that. Just the thing to ensure your patent breech doesn't develop a carbon ring. The second thing I'd suggest is that you start using Dawn dish washing soap as your bullet lube. Nope, not crazy. Here is a good video on why:

Magical Mystery Patch Lube

It takes so much less crud to give those small bores a real problem, and the use of Dawn appears that it will reduce them. Finally, consider polishing the Pederoli bore with some small pieces of 3M Green Dish Scrub Pad, as Pedersoli sometimes has very sharp edges on rifling lands and may cut patches.

LD

Thank you, LD. Good information right there.