I have a new Pedersoli Missouri River Hawken percussion. The manufacturer only provides info for shooting conical bullets. Can I shoot .50 cal round balls with this thing? If so, what's the powder charge? Also, I cannot find anywhere in the manual or website what size caps this thing takes. Sorry for the complete newb questions but I want to be safe. Thanks.
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Pedersoli Question
- Thread starter kg7e
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It will probably shoot RB's, but depending on the twist, may make it harder to get good accuracy. To measure the twist, with a cleaning jag, and patch, push it all the way down the barrel. Mark the rod for both depth, and the top flat, so you can tell when you have pulled the ramrod back a quarter turn. Pull the rod out the quarter turn, measure the distance, multiply by four, and that's your rate of twist. 1 in 48 to 1 in 66 are the most common round ball twists. Faster, like 1 in 36, to 1 in 22 are for mini's and such. Working up your load will be affected by the twist rate. Cap size is probably no. 11's
Bill
Bill
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Round balls can be shot accurately from almost all twists. But you have to have the proper fitting patch and right powder charge. All projectiles stabilise by rpm. The slower the twist, the faster the velocity needed to obtain the desired rpm. Fast twist rifles will shoot prb accurately with lower powder charges. Slower twists require faster velocities. The origional Hawkin rifles almost all had 1/48 twists while newer prb barrels use 1/66 or even greater twists simply because we now seem to think we need more velocity than they used back when.The standard powder charge for a 58 caliber mini in the civil war was aproximately 60 grains. Yet they were deadly out to 600 yrds or even more. :idunno: :idunno:
It is a great myth that fast twist barrels don't shoot round balls accurately. You probably shouldn't listen to those folks. You need to try it, maybe it won't but maybe it will. Probably will.
My Perdersoli manual is a little confusing but I think it indicates your maximum load for whatever projectile you are attempting to use.
It states: Missouri River Hawken .50 cal recommended load 85 gr of black powder and 110 grs max load. The confusing part is the next spec, .500 long/450 grs. But right after that is tells you to use a .018 thick patch. That same spec on the Rocky Mountain Hawken says use a .535 round with a .22 patch.
Go shoot it. It will do fine.
My Perdersoli manual is a little confusing but I think it indicates your maximum load for whatever projectile you are attempting to use.
It states: Missouri River Hawken .50 cal recommended load 85 gr of black powder and 110 grs max load. The confusing part is the next spec, .500 long/450 grs. But right after that is tells you to use a .018 thick patch. That same spec on the Rocky Mountain Hawken says use a .535 round with a .22 patch.
Go shoot it. It will do fine.
Interesting. My manual lists the .500 long/450 grs and the remainder of the specs are lined-out. There is no patch thickness specified.
I'm guessing they want the consumer to buy their expensive bullets. Balls are cheap. I'd rather shoot balls. I don't plan on hunting with it so that's not an issue.
Thanks for the input!
I'm guessing they want the consumer to buy their expensive bullets. Balls are cheap. I'd rather shoot balls. I don't plan on hunting with it so that's not an issue.
Thanks for the input!
It's a new rifle, so shoot it a bit. I would take .490 & .495 balls, .010, .015, &.020 lubed pre-cut patches, and 2f & 3f powder. Just so you have an idea of what it might like. Your start charge of 70gr will work. You can start a little lower. Have fun with it!
steve
steve
I got an Italian 50 cal Hawkin and here in NW Indiana we can get a poster board size target with 6 targets . mount it horizontal and fire 5 shots at each target starting at 50 gr and then working in 10 gr increase shoot the rest. I did this from a bench rest to stay uniform but any way the groups tightened up and the started to spread. The tightest group is what my gun liked, actually 70gr was best of the 6 targets but then I went to 75gr and things got better. I use a 490 ball with .020 lubed patches but I'm working toward ticking from the fabric stores but its harder to come by than i would think. Also have to use triple FF as regular BP aint here (working on it but also have to eat so large qt+hazmat aint happening) It only gets better the more ya try things and the possible loads and patches get diff results. Its like asking about women too, everyone has their own pref.
hanshi
Cannon
The problem - if there is one - with prb and fast twist rifles has little to do with the rot. What it has to do with is the depth of the grooves. A fast twist bore with shallow grooves can allow the prb to "strip" past the rifling causing poor accuracy. This can usually be remedied by using a good, snug prb that's tight enough to take the shallow grooves. Larger calibers are a bit more problematic than smaller ones.
Many consider 1-48" rot "fast"; but it is not. 1-28", say, IS pretty fast and a .54 prb might not shoot as satisfactorily as a smaller .36 from such a bore. Each gun is an individual, however, and you never know what you'll get till you try it.
Many consider 1-48" rot "fast"; but it is not. 1-28", say, IS pretty fast and a .54 prb might not shoot as satisfactorily as a smaller .36 from such a bore. Each gun is an individual, however, and you never know what you'll get till you try it.
I don't know what that spec means. It is confusing. And the fact it is different languages makes it harder to read, I mis-quoted the patch 'thickness' as the 18 is in millimeters.
The accuracy is more determined by RPM's than anything else. So, if you have a fast twist 1/28 barrel the more velocity you try to get, the more RPM's you get. That is why less powder seems to work best.
No matter what projectile you choose to use, I am going to suggest that 110 grs is maximum. That is how I read the manual anyway. I would not exceed it. And that 85 grs is the recommended load.
The accuracy is more determined by RPM's than anything else. So, if you have a fast twist 1/28 barrel the more velocity you try to get, the more RPM's you get. That is why less powder seems to work best.
No matter what projectile you choose to use, I am going to suggest that 110 grs is maximum. That is how I read the manual anyway. I would not exceed it. And that 85 grs is the recommended load.
paulvallandigham
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First, decide what you are expecting from that gun. If you are punching paper, with little interest in hunting, then THE LAST THING YOU NEED is a powder charge that RECOILS.
My .50 cal. has a 39 inch barrel, and my target load is only 60 grains of FFg. Its accurate out to 100 yds. It also only gives me a "Shove" rather than a kick. I can shoot it all day without any bruises on my shoulder.
I heard of a man who had worked out his 100 yd. Point of Aim for his target load, and then shot the same sight setting at 75, 50, &25 yds. He lowered his powder charge at each of the lesser yardages to get the POI to be the same for the shorter distances. He had a business card taped to his stock that listed the powder charge for each of those ranges, so he didn't have to change his sights, nor use " Kentucky" windage to hit his targets.
His lowest powder charge was for the 25 yd. range targets, and it was 27 grains of powder. I don't recall now if it was FFg or FFFg powder. When asked why so small a powder charge- almost inaudible---- he said all the ball has to do to score is make it through the paper target! His rifle was chambered either for a .50 or .54 caliber ball. Again, I don't remember which it was.
The point is that if you want to have fun, there simply is NO reason to be using Hunting loads in a .50 caliber gun, unless that is what trips your trigger! :shocked2: :youcrazy: :blah:
70 grains of FFFg powder is a HUNTING LOAD. And, unless you are expecting to be hunting large bears, don't ever even consider loading that suggested Maximum powder charge of 110 grains.
I know there are people who think they can't hit a barn door without loading lots of powder in their guns, but any trip to a target range during a match will introduce you to the true facts of life. With the right "squib" load, you can take squirrels and rabbits cleanly with your .50 cal. rifle.
My .50 cal. has a 39 inch barrel, and my target load is only 60 grains of FFg. Its accurate out to 100 yds. It also only gives me a "Shove" rather than a kick. I can shoot it all day without any bruises on my shoulder.
I heard of a man who had worked out his 100 yd. Point of Aim for his target load, and then shot the same sight setting at 75, 50, &25 yds. He lowered his powder charge at each of the lesser yardages to get the POI to be the same for the shorter distances. He had a business card taped to his stock that listed the powder charge for each of those ranges, so he didn't have to change his sights, nor use " Kentucky" windage to hit his targets.
His lowest powder charge was for the 25 yd. range targets, and it was 27 grains of powder. I don't recall now if it was FFg or FFFg powder. When asked why so small a powder charge- almost inaudible---- he said all the ball has to do to score is make it through the paper target! His rifle was chambered either for a .50 or .54 caliber ball. Again, I don't remember which it was.
The point is that if you want to have fun, there simply is NO reason to be using Hunting loads in a .50 caliber gun, unless that is what trips your trigger! :shocked2: :youcrazy: :blah:
70 grains of FFFg powder is a HUNTING LOAD. And, unless you are expecting to be hunting large bears, don't ever even consider loading that suggested Maximum powder charge of 110 grains.
I know there are people who think they can't hit a barn door without loading lots of powder in their guns, but any trip to a target range during a match will introduce you to the true facts of life. With the right "squib" load, you can take squirrels and rabbits cleanly with your .50 cal. rifle.
I have had a pedersoli hawken for a year and only shoot round balls.
load 85 grns 3F with patched round ball.
Moose snot lubricant as per Dutch's formula.
It took about hundred rounds to shoot in the barrel. The front sight has been tapped a little off centre to make the rifle shoot on at 50 metres.
It is now a tack driver but heavy for off hand events. Hunting pigs it is murderous.
load 85 grns 3F with patched round ball.
Moose snot lubricant as per Dutch's formula.
It took about hundred rounds to shoot in the barrel. The front sight has been tapped a little off centre to make the rifle shoot on at 50 metres.
It is now a tack driver but heavy for off hand events. Hunting pigs it is murderous.
The entire idea behind production of the Missouri River Hawken is to have a traditional looking gun that fires "modern projectiles"...hence the shallow-grove, fast twist (1-24) barrel. The Rocky Mountain Hawken produced by Pedersoli is the "round ball" model with a 1-48 twist in the .50 cal (which can also probably shoot conicals well) and a 1-65 twist in the .54 cal (mine will NOT shoot conicals, not even buffalo ball-ets.)
If you want a round-ball shooter, you might want to get the Rocky Mountain (not sure if that's an option for you anymore).
If you want a round-ball shooter, you might want to get the Rocky Mountain (not sure if that's an option for you anymore).
in my 50 i get great accuracy on targets with just over 55grs. my lymn GPR shoots great with 50. for a hunting load the GPR shoots 95 but when i shot 110 in the snow i had unburned powder on the ground in front of the gun. working up a hunting load for my custom i tried 95 and 100 as i was elk hunting. had to back down to 85 to get my groups tight. small loads are great for targets as there is one that is accurate and uses a lot less powder
