Pedersoli whitworth rifle

[TFoley]

I agree with all your points, the Euroarms Whitworth I looked at last year was drop-dead gorgeous, especially with regard to the woodwork. I have no idea how it shot though, as the owner has yet to fire it even the one time, AFAIK.

However, having visited the Parker-Hale works at Golden Hillock Road, Birmingham, many moons ago to collect half a dozen .451cal barrels w/o plugs or breeching, I was able to see that they cut ALL their barrels on machines that looked as though Brunel had designed them when he was at school. Watching the complexities of setting up the increasing depth rifling on a musketoon barrel was interesting, to say the least.

tac

 

[dodger]

I K Brunel also toyed with polygonal rifling for a short while before he went back to playing with trains , bridges , ships etc . A great man with a great taste in hats.

 

[pchwcf50110]

the Whitworth and Volunteer rifles are supposed to have hammer forged barrels according to my old Gun Digest. I remember seeing something at the Perdersoli factory on the net years ago saying it was going to take a while to set up the barrel making machines and learn their use. I could be wrong

 

[ResearchPress]

FWIW...

The 1972 report by the MLAGB on the then new P.61 Artillery Carbine, said the barrel is "formed with 5 groove 48 inch pitch progressive depth rifling by the cold forging method."

Parker-Hale advertising from 1974 with respect to the P.61 says "5 grooved, cold forged barrel of best steel, original progressive depth rifling..." and for the P.53 says "the 3 groove barrels are rifled by the cold forging method."

1977 advertising for the Volunteer with Rigby rifling also refers to "cold forging method to produce a mirror smooth and hardened finish".

I don't have any P-H Whitworth advertising immediately to hand.

David

 

[ResearchPress]

Early in his work Whitworth was assisted by the gunmaker Westley Richards, from whom he learnt much about the manufacture of small arms. Westley Richards had previously made an octagonally-bored prototype rifle for Isambard Kingdom Brunel, which
Whitworth first saw in May 1854.

Brunel consulted with Westley Richards in October 1852 about the manufacture of a rifle.

David

 

[TFoley]

They lied to me. :surrender:

Please ignore my posts re rifling and Parker-Hale.

Apologies to all.

tac

 

[TFoley]

Mr Minshall, you may or may not know that I build small live steam locomotives for fun and enjoiemente, so you might forgive me for wondering how you can drive a tapered mandrel down a pre-cut hole without the depth of the rifling it forms being enlarged to the greatest diameter/depth along the entire length of the hole/bore. :idunno: :hmm:

Not that it matters, I 'spose.

tac

 

[RAEDWALD]

Yes Brunel did begin work on polygonal rifling with Westley Richards as the maker. It was seeing this that led Whitworth to do the same. Brunel was remarkably nice about it considering that he and WR were first and lent Whitworth one of them.

Not a Whitworth per se but my new (to me) Westley Richards Monkey Tail Carbine has an octagonal bore with 'Whitworth Patent' on the barrel and can be loaded at the breech or muzzle so I will see in time if it makes a different noise to the .577 Pritchett.

BTW there is a piece of film on Youtube somewhere that shows the Parker Hale works making their barrels and they are clearly hammer forged. The drilled blank going in several inches short of the finished product coming out of the machine in question.

 

[dodger]

I believe this is the video you mention ,
https://youtu.be/uB9rsfB5HTQ

BTW the whole series is well worth watching .But I do take issue with some of the statements made by Christopher Roads,for example the rifle used by Queen Victoria was a Whitworth not a P53 .
He is not a flintlock fan and really went out of his way in one episode , laughably so, to ridicule the flintlock's shortcomings .
The video also shows the very snobbish aspect of British shooting at the time . My brother , who has represented his country at several shooting disciplines, was told by a member of the shooting establishment at Bisley not to bother trying for the the national rifle team because he didn't have the right background [ ie , the right school or the right university].His reply was along the lines of "in that case the selection committee should indulge in sex and travel". :haha:

I do see the problem of the forming of progressive rifling by hammer forging and although the video mentioned above showed the PH machinery at work , it did look like a commercial centrefire sporter barrel that was formed .
Although fascinated by this problem ,I am not an engineer nor a machinist and have an open mind on this subject .
One should be very careful in not perpetuating an urban legend , just because PH had a hammer forging plant does not mean that it was used for all of their guns .
Early polygonal rifling was cut into a round bore with triangular shaped cutters .
Prior to Brunel , Moore had experimented with polygonal rifling at the Woolwich Arsenal in the 1830s.
Brunel allowed Westley Richards to take his barrel design to Whitworth because he did not believe in patents , Whitworth however was a firm advocate of patents and protected his hex barrel design rather too rigidly, which was one of the reasons why Henry and others were so quick to circumvent the pattern with their own designs .
[Also I believe Brunel had the foresight to realise that trying to please the Army Ordnance committees was going to be a long, frustrating and unprofitable exercise .]
Keep yer powder dry .

 

[TFoley]

Yes, sporting rifles made by P-H WERE hammer-forged, but I was most definitely...ahhhhh I give up.

tac