Pennsylvania percussion rifle problem

[mkpatrick]

Hello,
I am just getting back into shooting after having to take a break for 2 years from an injury.

I bought a Pennsylvania percussion rifle. I liked that long barrel and I was hoping for some accuracy. I fired it for the first time yesterday.
It was grouping OK at 100 yards.

Here is the problem;
After about 3 shots, I started noticing it was getting harder to run the patch and ball down the barrel and seat it. I had to really try to get it down there.
I fired 2 more shots with each time it getting harder to run that patch and ball down.
So I figured, I'll run a patch on a jag down to get some fouling out, I figured it was just a warm barrel with a bit of fouling.
This is a .50 cal rifle.
I ran a .45 jag with a patch on it to give me a bit more clearance so it would be looser and I could just move the patch back and forth and get that crud out.
The rod, jag and patch are stuck midway down there now. With all my strength, I can't get the rod and jag back out.

First question;
Why was it getting tighter and tighter to seat the patch and ball after firing it?
What must I have been doing wrong to cause this?

How do I get this rod with the jag and patch back out?

I hope to get it shooting again, it showed me promising accuracy after just a few shots.
I was firing with 90 grains of black powder and a 4.90 ball.

Thanks so much for any information I can get on this.

 

[okawbow]

Pour a little soapy water down the barrel and let it soak a few minute. The patch should pull out.

Use a wet patch lube when shooting at targets, where the gun will be shot shortly after loading. The wet patch will allow easier seating of the ball.

Good luck!

 

[Free Plunder]

Lube, need plenty lube. To get out, use hammer to drive all way in, unscrew jag from rod and take rod out, then do a clean job on the bore, remove nipple then dribble some fff powder into ram or drum under nipple 4 or 5 grains should be plenty, replace nipple and shoot jag out. Again lube is what keeps fouling soft, dry patch will lead to fouling build up. Even spit on patch will be better than dry patch.

If want wait for more answers, there are plenty opinions on solving your problem. I've lost jag and loaded a ball w/o powder before and it is pretty easy solution.

And you may have a bit of rough in your bore and JB and a chore boy will help smooth all out, roughness collects fouling very fast and makes it harder to get out too.

90 grains kinda heavy for just shooting and getting elevation/windage etc... set. For practice I suggest you use 60 to 75 grains and then more for more serious shooting like finding most accurate load and hunting etc...

Or as in older times, perhaps your bore needs to be "freshed".

My experience and opinion, others may be different.

FP

 

[mooman76]

It got harder each time you loaded because fouling was building up. 90 gr is quite abit of powder. That's your choice but you can get by shooting less. Different lube and the fouling won't build up as bad. That's why I like spit. I can shoot all day without swabbing. You can swab between shots to keep the fouling down. Sounds to me like since you used too small a jag the cleaning patch bound up causing it to get jammed. Keep at it and you will get it out.

 

[Zonie]

All types of black powder and substitute black powder create a lot of fouling when it burns.

A buildup of fouling in the bore is very normal if real black powder is being shot.
The synthetic black powders are much less likely to build up fouling but they do make some.
As you found, running a dry patch down a fouled bore is a guaranteed way of getting it stuck.

When this happens, pouring about a teaspoon of water down the bore and giving it a little time to soak in will almost always free the stuck patch and making it easy to remove.

Getting to the "right way" to remove this fouling while your shooting can cause a few arguments but here's my method.

Using a cleaning jag that is made for the barrels caliber, get a cleaning patch out.
Pour some water on it and then lightly squeeze out the excess.

Put the patch on the jag and run it down the bore at a moderate speed, all the way to the breech plug.

Now, let it sit for a count of 15 to 20 seconds.

Then, slowly pull the rod/jag/patch back out of the bore.
When the patch emerges it will be totally coated with black fouling and the bore will be clean enough to load your next shot.

Many shooters run a clean patch down the bore to dry it before loading but IMO, if your cleaning patch was just damp, that's not really needed.

One thing you should never do is to run a sopping wet cleaning patch down the bore to get rid of the fouling when your shooting. The excess water can run into places that will keep the guns next load from firing.

Another thing you shouldn't do when wiping out the fouling is to pump the rod up and down trying to scrub the bore.

Doing that will almost always send chunks of fouling down the bore where it can plug up the vent hole or the flame channel that connects the nipple to the bore.

Welcome to the Forum and, have fun!

 

[mkpatrick]

Lube, need plenty lube. To get out, use hammer to drive all way in, unscrew jag from rod and take rod out, then do a clean job on the bore, remove nipple then dribble some fff powder into ram or drum under nipple 4 or 5 grains should be plenty, replace nipple and shoot jag out. Again lube is what keeps fouling soft, dry patch will lead to fouling build up. Even spit on patch will be better than dry patch.

If want wait for more answers, there are plenty opinions on solving your problem. I've lost jag and loaded a ball w/o powder before and it is pretty easy solution.

And you may have a bit of rough in your bore and JB and a chore boy will help smooth all out, roughness collects fouling very fast and makes it harder to get out too.

90 grains kinda heavy for just shooting and getting elevation/windage etc... set. For practice I suggest you use 60 to 75 grains and then more for more serious shooting like finding most accurate load and hunting etc...

Or as in older times, perhaps your bore needs to be "freshed".

My experience and opinion, others may be different.

FP

Its funny you say rough in the bore, when I bought the gun, I wanted to clean it real well before shooting it. Its used so I didn't know what the bore looked like.

So when I cleaned it, it was dirty.
I kept running patches waiting for a clean one so I could send an oil patch down it until I'd have a chance to have a shooting day.
But the patches kept coming back dirty and I noticed it was a sort of brownish/reddish stain on the patch.
I'm thinking that is rust.
So I did what I have done with modern firearms friends of mine had that were rusting. I cleaned them with a high grade penetrating oil and ultra fine (the finest I could find) steel wool. I put the wool, a very small amount on a loop, sprayed the Aerocroil into the barrel, waited a bit and then ran a rod/loop down the barrel.
The fit was not tight.
I dry patched, re-applied and then again. I finally dry patched out a clean patch.
I figured the rust was out.
But now what you mention sounds like a rough barrel.

You mention JB and a chore boy.
Whats that?

 

[mkpatrick]

Pour a little soapy water down the barrel and let it soak a few minute. The patch should pull out.

Use a wet patch lube when shooting at targets, where the gun will be shot shortly after loading. The wet patch will allow easier seating of the ball.

Good luck!

What do you wet yours with?

 

[Toomuch51]

First to get your jag out, as has been said pour some water (I prefer some cleaning solution) down the barrel and let it soak the patch up good then it should come put no problem.

You said you were using a.490 ball over 90 gr. of powder (2f or 3f ?) but didn't mention what patch thickness you were using. Most .50 cal. rifles work best in the 50 to 75 grain range, usually with 3f, so this is a pretty stiff charge. your patch thickness should be at least the same as, or better, than the depth of your rifling.

 

[okawbow]

For target shooting, I use a "moose milk" solution of 1 part soluble oil or Balistol, and 6 or 7 parts water. I wet the patch just enough that the lube doesn't squeeze out too much when the ball is started in the bore.

I also use the solution if I wipe between shots. I wipe with a patch damp with the moose milk, and then wipe again with a dry patch. For general target shooting and woods walks, I can shoot all day without wiping between shots if I use a wet patch on the ball.

For hunting, I use a tallow and beeswax lube or one of the bore butter type lubes.

 

[Hipshot]

Sounds like it might have a pitted bore, hopefully not. I'd clean it really well and get one of those little battery powered bore lights that you drop down the barrel and see how bad or good it looks or pull the breach plug to check.
Many moons ago I bought a used Hawken style rifle at the big Missoula gun show. It was a decent amateur built custom, I didn't have a way to check the bore and the seller said it was nice, I haven't bought a used muzzleloader without that light ever since.

 

[mkpatrick]

You guys were right, I knew you would be.
The rod and patch/jag is out.

I want this to not happen again.

I'm using Ox Yoke wonder patches. They are .010 thick. They are pre-lubed with wonder lube. Is there a better alternative?
I was using Goex FF black powder.

One thing I want to be able to do with this rifle is hit a gong at 200 yards with it. I hear what y'all are saying, 90 grains of powder too hot.
What would suffice to ring that bell at 200 yards?

Back to the barrel,

How do I smooth that barrel out and not have this happen again?
I had a wonder lubed patch. I think there is pitting in the barrel from the rust I removed.
Someone mentioned JB. What is that?
BTW, most of my experience is modern rifles so black powder is new to me. If the barrel is rough, that means I probly am leaving a lot of lead in there.
Any recommendations on how to get this barrel in good shape again? (Without having to go to a gunsmith)?

I REALLY appreciate the advice. It was embarrassing to leave the range with that rod sticking out of there.
I'm sorry for all the questions in this post. I know there are many.

I really like the Pennsylvania. I like the long barrel and the promising group it made.
I'll be only target shooting with it, maybe in the future a bit of varmint shooting if the opportunity presents itself.

Thanks so much for the advice and information!

 

[kurts]

I use PURE neats foot oil, little wet no problem with fouling, many shots, loads great.

 

[hanshi]

Once you get the jag and patch out, take some fine steel wool and a bit of oil and give it about 100 or so "pumps". This is an excellent way to both smooth and clean a rough bore.

I'll also mention that a well lubed prb with a snug patch will prevent that kind of fouling buildup. I like mink oil for hunting & shooting and Hoppes #9 BP lube for general shooting.

 

[timothy prouty]

WELL when you go to the range see if you can pick up a patch or two after you shoot and see if it tear it up

 

[mooman76]

If you are using a patched ball you are not leading the bore. The patch is between the ball and the bore keeping the lead off it. If you are trying to ring a gong at 200y, then 90 gr might not be too much but only experimenting with loads will tell you. I's change lubes. Make your own patches and try another lube. The lube you are using is ok at best but you definitely need to swab between shots if you use that particular lube. Tons of lubes out there, some home made and some bought and everyone has their favorite.

 

[azmntman]

Once you get the jag and patch out, take some fine steel wool and a bit of oil and give it about 100 or so "pumps". This is an excellent way to both smooth and clean a rough bore.

I'll also mention that a well lubed prb with a snug patch will prevent that kind of fouling buildup. I like mink oil for hunting & shooting and Hoppes #9 BP lube for general shooting.

I agree, no swabbing ever with Hoppes #9 BLK PWDR SOLVENT N LUBE. One can develope a crud ring if one has a whole day to shoot though

 

[SDSmlf]

Subject matter expert - Dutch Schoultz. http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

Best $20 you will spend if you are serious about shooting traditional muzzleloaders well.

 

[fleener]

90 grains is not too stiff of a load for 200 yard shooting. It certainly is not a light load either however.

For target work at 50 yards or less, in my .54 I am around 70 grains of 2F swiss. If I am moving out to shoot the bear at 200 yards, my powder charge goes up.

Good luck

Fleener

 

[ohio ramrod]

Another plug for Dutch's system. It will save you hundreds of hours learning the hard way what he can tell you! :idunno:

 

[Dr5x]

Thanks for all the recommendations.
Nobody's buying.
My vision is about gone.
I feel I will be coding p shop shortly

Most of the people who say theyyy are using my system aren't really doing so.
They are probably using just part of it and usually not the entrap part but which helped so much they're happy

I made a discovery which caused me write all this stuff and most of the happy subscribers ignore that discovery
I sound nike an ex wife

I'm not saving for my old age. That was 15 years ago.


Dutch