Percussion Wheel Gun Accuracy

[Stantheman86]

The standard military load for the Nitrate cartridge for the 1851 Navy .36 was 17 gr and a conical. Just for reference.

Filling the chamber with powder and crushing a ball down will result in half that powder being blown out the barrel unburned. 20 gr and a ball is a solid load for a .36.

 

[M. De Land]

Accuracy questions? Years ago I got this idea to consult only the people with the highest credentials. Maybe national champion pistol shooters. Seems they did very little bench testing of their match pistols. Today I sighted in and tested a new to me caplock match pistol made about 20 years ago for NMLRA matches. No, I did not bench test or try a bunch of different ball sizes or powder brands or charges. Loaded small production hand made caplock with .350 ball, 15 grs. of Shutzen and a 23 thou. patch lubed with soapy water. Fired a 10 shot sighter one handed match style at a 25 yd. target. Now with in 2-3 clicks windage and elevation shot two more 25s to confirm final zero. Moved on to 50 yds. 6 clicks up to start windage good shots about a click higher than called so down 1 click. Now centered and zeroed. Was a good day... Have I done bench testing? Yes, extensive.Wish I had all that wasted time back...Guess it`s nice to know all those old champs were right about my time would be better spent improving my technique and consistency....c

One has to know they have a good load before they can have the confidence to shoot tight groups and most of the time the best load does not happen by chance it must be tested for. The tightest groups your gun and load are capable of translate to points when married to skill.
In match shooting one cannot count on wibbles compensating for wobbles (luck) as Jack O'Conner liked to say.

 

[Are. M.]

One handed dueling stance at 25 yds with a .44 Rogers & Spencer. Then dude next to me put them all in the 9 ring with his 1858.

I use 23 gr 3F and 18grs corn meal.

Using filler and getting that ball to the top of the cylinder is key to accuracy and every competiton revolver shooter will echo this. I used 18 gr 3F and 15gr malt-o-meal to fill the cylinder in my .36 and held a 3" group one handed at 25 yds.

It'll do it all day, but you'll have to play with it.

 

[Andreas Jager]

Some of it could be the target and how you are aiming at the target. The very best target for open sights is a boring old black bullseye. Remember, you don't aim at the bullseye, you float the bullseye over the front sight. And it is key to stare at the front sight and allow the target to blur.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You're right, I should not have made that comment about load advice. Sorry.

I have also tried 20gr. Not enough to make a serious study on what's better though.

Bullets... I bought a very large quantity of .375" balls when I got into this. Everything said that was the size to use. It would be a kick if something else worked better.

I have always read though that balls are at least as accurate as conicals in almost any C&B.

I do not get much of a ring... very little... I am afraid they are a touch too small...

I am an advocate of measuring the chamber diameters in the cylinder before I order a lot of balls. I know that most suppliers recommend the 0.375 balls. I measured the chamber mouths of my 36 caliber revolvers and found the diameter to be nearly 0.375". The 0.380" balls are going to work much better.

 

[Snake Pleskin]

“Wheel gun”? Do people call revolvers “Wheel guns”?

yes, some do.

 

[Boburuncle]

12 grains of 3f pushing a .375 roundball is lethal at the ranges that most indoor firefights happen.
You put that bullet in the right place and it is game over for the bad guy.

BP guns are not about massive power and hydroshock. They are wound channel makers and marksmanship is the key.

So do some load development. Maybe with that pistol it needs 17 grains for all we know. Once you get the load right it will serve you well.

Now I will say if you are limited to a BP revolver for a defense weapon then you should be shooting a .44, an 1860 or an 1851 in fantasy 44 is great. Now if you are a big fella, then consider the Dragoons or a Walker. A Walker loaded with a conical and 40-55 grains of power is the ticket.

Or get a LeMat. That first shot blast is a great conversation starter.

 

[B P Arn]

“Wheel gun”? Do people call revolvers “Wheel guns”?

That's better than calling it a pistol.

 

[PathfinderNC]

That's better than calling it a pistol.

Yeah, right up there with “Smoke pole” and “Fire stick”

 

[Frod733]

Reproduction revolvers sometimes have undersized chambers compared to the bore. Also, check alignment of chamber with bore. Seen several where there was considerable misalignment.

 

[Stantheman86]

You never know what you're gonna get...

My Pietta cheapie .44 Brasser Navy will blow a ragged hole in the paper at 10 yards and can pop a can at 25 once you learn where to hold the sights

I don't shoot for match accuracy , but casually shooting my Uberti Dragoon at 40ish yards left me surprised to see a Softball sized group , or putting 10 shots in the head of a B27 silhouette at 25 yards with my Pocket Navy

My cut-down "Avenging Angel" Walker just kind of sprays them all over the place in spite of having a usable front sight. You just never know

 

[M. De Land]

Reproduction revolvers sometimes have undersized chambers compared to the bore. Also, check alignment of chamber with bore. Seen several where there was considerable misalignment.

Amen, most of the guns I check have chamber mouths significantly smaller than the barrel groove diameter and of different diameters than the rest of them in the cylinder.
Chamber alignment with the bore is another problem with some revolvers. None of them will be perfect unless line bored and that doesn't happen with production revolvers. Chambers can be out of alignment in both axis but have found that if they are all the same pretty good accuracy can still be demonstrated.

 

[m-g willy]

I had a Uberti with .447 chamber mouths and a .45 bore,,It shot 12”+ patterns at 25 yards,, Once I checked the bore and chamber mouths I got a .451 reamer and after reaming the cylinder mouths my groups shrunk to less than 3” at 25 yards,,and that is shooting while on my hind legs with a two hand hold.

 

[user 48702]

Yeah, right up there with “Smoke pole” and “Fire stick”

Deputy Barney Fife of Mayberry, NC, called his revolver "Rosco", another reason why Andy only gave him one cartridge.

 

[PaulF70]

One handed dueling stance at 25 yds with a .44 Rogers & Spencer. Then dude next to me put them all in the 9 ring with his 1858.

I use 23 gr 3F and 18grs corn meal.

Using filler and getting that ball to the top of the cylinder is key to accuracy and every competiton revolver shooter will echo this. I used 18 gr 3F and 15gr malt-o-meal to fill the cylinder in my .36 and held a 3" group one handed at 25 yds.

It'll do it all day, but you'll have to play with it.

Ok, I am learning. Apparently the reason to get the ball to the top of the cylinders is that they are not uniformly sized/not rifled/not the same as the bore.

I'll give it a try, along with the .380 balls and different charges.

I actually think the poor lighting in my basement is the biggest issue. Time to shoot outdoors.

 

[B P Arn]

Alrghty, then...

...Once I checked the bore and chamber mouths I got a .451 reamer and after reaming the cylinder mouths my groups shrunk to less than...

Can you explain how reaming is done, or provide a link, please? Thank you.

 

[Bad Karma]

I'm not…

I started this thread only because I read comments that BP revolvers are "SO" accurate they will shoot 2" groups at 25 yards, and, well, mine/me can't do that.

For those laughing at my inability to shoot, please post your 25 YARD targets. Not that I doubt there are many doing a lot better than I am - I know there are. I just want you to walk the walk.

“I cheated. Two ways. I shot from the tonneau cover on “old white”… and I used a pistol I’ve been shooting since 1962 or 3. Uberti, made for Navy Arms and if you can’t hit with this pistol, you should take up golf or skeet or something. I drove in after work today, The gun was loaded, (of course) so I fired two sighters, reloaded the two chambers and fired for score. 30 grains 3f Swiss, dry wool wads .465” ball and a .Remington 10 cap. The gun has .456” chambers, 11degree cone and .450/454” bore and groove dimensions. Cheating.“

I posted this on another site a few months ago. Six rounds at 50 yards. From my wheelgun. LOL! (a term in fairly common usage in the 1960’s, 70‘s and 80’s…)


BTW, I didn’t “fix“ the short arbor on this gun until 2019 or so. I’m told it would eventually have self destructed. My brother and I were teenagers when we began shooting blackpowder in earnest. I couldn't begin to guess how much powder and lead have gone down the pipe over the past 50 years. I guess it was a ticking time bomb…

 

[Bad Karma]

Ok, I am learning. Apparently the reason to get the ball to the top of the cylinders is that they are not uniformly sized/not rifled/not the same as the bore.

I'll give it a try, along with the .380 balls and different charges.

I actually think the poor lighting in my basement is the biggest issue. Time to shoot outdoors.

Some folks think a long “jump” from cylinder to barrel is detrimental to accuracy. I’m not totally convinced but I’m not a target shooter.

 

[PaulF70]

“I cheated. Two ways. I shot from the tonneau cover on “old white”… and I used a pistol I’ve been shooting since 1962 or 3. Uberti, made for Navy Arms and if you can’t hit with this pistol, you should take up golf or skeet or something. I drove in after work today, The gun was loaded, (of course) so I fired two sighters, reloaded the two chambers and fired for score. 30 grains 3f Swiss, dry wool wads .465” ball and a .Remington 10 cap. The gun has .456” chambers, 11degree cone and .450/454” bore and groove dimensions. Cheating.“

I posted this on another site a few months ago. Six rounds at 50 yards. From my wheelgun. LOL! (a term in fairly common usage in the 1960’s, 70‘s and 80’s…)


BTW, I didn’t “fix“ the short arbor on this gun until 2019 or so. I’m told it would eventually have self destructed. My brother and I were teenagers when we began shooting blackpowder in earnest. I couldn't begin to guess how much powder and lead have gone down the pipe over the past 50 years. I guess it was a ticking time bomb…

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Shooting any handgun with open sights at 50 yards is nuts.

I'd like to see the any of the guys shooting 9mm Glocks do this.

Hat's off.

 

[45D]

BTW, I didn’t “fix“ the short arbor on this gun until 2019 or so. I’m told it would eventually have self destructed. My brother and I were teenagers when we began shooting blackpowder in earnest. I couldn't begin to guess how much powder and lead have gone down the pipe over the past 50 years. I guess it was a ticking time bomb…

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Dang, are you saying you wish you hadn't fixed the arbor?

Mike