Pictures of an interesting smoothbore

[44-henry]

I just purchased this at a local gunstore. They had it on the rack listed as a wallhanger which it is, $39.99 was the asking price. I look at it and I think trade gun, perhaps with some Indian ownership. Hard to prove, but this area has lot's of reservations and it had been part of a collection of someone who was in the area for a lifetime. In any event, it was an oddity that I didn't mind spending a couple 20's on to obtain. Here's some of the pictures. If you look close you can make out the outline of the pan on the percussion lock left over from when they converted it to a percussion, the touchole is also still in the barrel and I don't know if it was ever plugged or not. The gun is also still loaded, I found this when I dropped a ramrod down the bore to check, something to keep in mind when dealing with guns, especially old ones like this. I tried to remove the charge with C02, but that failed. My only other option is to pull it with a screw attachment, I'm not going to try and remove the breech on this thing. Tell me what you think, I have only a general idea what kind of musket it might have at one time been.

 

[Toomuch_36]

Just guessing but, perhaps a North West gun or a Tryon. The trigger guard also appears to be of a later date, done perhaps at the same time as the percussion conversion.

Toomuch
...........
Shoot Flint

 

[thomas]

Looks ex military [some of the parts anyway], maybe something we bought around the civil war period from another country. Sure looks like it has had alot of work done on it thru the years.

Thomas

 

[Cruzatte]

Well, if it was military, it has since been restocked, don't you think? Look at the cheek piece. I don't recall an American military musket with a cheek piece shaped like that. I'll guess it was cobbled together from a bunch of left over parts, including some military parts. The lock bolt plate sure looks military.

Cruzatte

 

[tg]

The cheekpiece and side plate are identical to an original military gun I have which I belive is Dutch circa Cival war period, the bore on mine is around .54

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Not American of either flavor - Austrian, Prussian or another of the germanic states. They brought in a number in both carbine and musket during the late unpleasantness. I'm getting a dim echo form the back of my menory of "Potsdam", but wouldn't swear to it. Try posting on the Civil War board - maybe just a link to this thread.

Joel

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It looks to be a Continental musket that was cut down. It seems to have begun its long life as a flintlock, too.

 

[David Teague]

Not American of either flavor - Austrian, Prussian or another of the germanic states. They brought in a number in both carbine and musket during the late unpleasantness. I'm getting a dim echo form the back of my menory of "Potsdam", but wouldn't swear to it. Try posting on the Civil War board - maybe just a link to this thread.

Joel

I'm with JoeL on this... even up to the Potsdam part as i think that might be what it is.

DT

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It is not a trade gun of any type nor was it flint. It is a sadly abbused Austrian M1849 Kammerbusche, the triggerguard and cheekpiece are the dead giveaways. There were approximately 20, 000 of this model imported by the North during the American Civil War. It has a chambered breech and originallly had an Augustin tube lock causing them to be rated as 4th Class arms by US Ordnance due to the lock and breach problem mentioned above and never issued in any quantity. They were sold off surplus post war to dealers like Bannerman who sold them individually to civilians or in quantity to gunsmiths that converted them to standard percussion, this one has a French style percussion conversion and the work may have been in Belgium by a speculator in military surplus arms in Europe during the ACW - speculators were hitting up US buyers big time and the Northern buyers were the biggest purchasors of the substandard muskets like this one. Records show no purcahses of this type musket by the South nor any evidence of use as a trade musket. They were still commonly available as surplus through the early 20th Century and never got the respect they deserved for their unusual lock and chambered breech - dead ends in the firearms development field but interesting non the less. Too bad about the condition....

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

The cheekpiece and side plate are identical to an original military gun I have which I belive is Dutch circa Cival war period, the bore on mine is around .54

TG, what you have is likely an Austrian M1854 Lorenz rifle musket, the second most imported gun of the ACW (after the P53 Enfield long rifle) and very popular with troops on both sides. Two excellent units at least partialy equipped with the Lorenz were the Southern "Stonewall Brigade" and the equally famous Northern "Iron Brigade". It was a succesor to the Kammerbusch and the Austrian tube lock equipped smoothbore M1842. The Augustin lock was unreliable and the Austrians changed to the standard percussion action in 1854 with the Lorenz.

 

[Swampman]

I used an original Austrian M1854 Lorenz for Civil War reenacting for several years. Mine had been cut back at some point and then restored to it original length. This gun could be parted out on eBay for a lot more than you paid for it.

 

[tg]

Sounds likely, mine has a 37" barrel, two bands and the entry thimble/noseband is a one piece unit held in place with a spring lever like the bands, and the rear sight is a single fixed type, the bayonet is around here somewhere, I think it is four sided.

 

[44-henry]

That's interesting, I had figured it was some kind of Austrian musket. I have know idea who would have owned it, but it has seen hard use, whether at the hands of a pioneer or a native I have no idea. Mint guns are nice, they give you an idea about what something looked like when it was new way back when. Guns like this have their own charm, perhaps it sat in somebody's barn for decades, waiting to be put to use to defend the family farm from all enemies foreign and domestic of both two and four legged variety. Perhaps it was owned by a Native American who shot buffalo with it on horseback and whatever else crossed his path. I honestly don't know, but it does make you wonder. Every nick, dent, pit, and deformation on the gun as a whole gives me something to think about as I set in my chair and fondle the stock. Now if the feeling I get from that isn't worth the $39.99 than I don't know what is.

 

[musketman]

I find the red, yellow and white paint interesting on this musket...

Seems likely of Native American influence, I wonder if the 4 white marks represent four kills? :hmm:

 

[Slamfire]

Probably the off hand fingers after bein' dipped in war paint. :rotf:

 

[thomas]

No, I don't think it has been re-stocked. I think the cheek piece has been added. If you look closely, it is not the same color and does not seem to be the same as the original wood of the stock. I do believe that it does look like an Austrian M1854 Lorenz rifled musket. I do believe there has been a lot of work done on the original stock - such as being cut back to a half-stock and Lord only knows what done to the barrel. The last thing I believe it is, is a Trade Musket or Trade Gun.

Thomas

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

It has what appears to be the remnant of a vent on the flat below the bolster--maybe the barrel is from an earlier musket?

 

[musketman]

It has what appears to be the remnant of a vent on the flat below the bolster--maybe the barrel is from an earlier musket?

I'm sure it was converted, looks like the "vent patch" deteriorated, exposing the former hole's whereabouts...

 

[thomas]

One thing is for sure, you more than got your moneys worth! Super good deal I say!! :hatsoff:

Thomas

 

[Mike Brooks]

It is a sadly abbused Austrian M1849 Kammerbusche, the triggerguard and cheekpiece are the dead giveaways.

VA.manuf. has it right. More than likely it spent the majority of it's life after the Civil War (or War of Northern aggression, depending on where you live :haha: ) in the barn shooting hogs before slaughter. :winking: Maybe not a romantic history, but quite practical.