pictures wanted of prb damage

[daniel collums]

hunting season is here for almost all, and with the cell phone cameras most of have this would be a great time to share the wound channel of a patched round ball so all can have a true picture of the effectiveness of hunting with round balls. What i would like to see is the inside chest cavity entry and exit holes of deer and other big game. A brief index of caliber used, powder load, shot distant, type of lead(soft or hard), damage done to internal organs, estimated weight of animal, and distance animal traveled. I know this type thing is graphic and there are folks that don't want to see stuff like this but the more a person using a black powder rifle can learn from seeing the damage done by a properly placed shot from a round ball the more confidence a new user of a muzzle loader hunter would have.

 

[roundball]

Well, don't forget the tried & true approach already in use...a photo of the muzzleloader beside the deer with accompanying load info pretty much tells the tale without internal graphics...dead is dead.

 

[rodwha]

I'm certainly interested in the damage done. I've yet to use my muzzleloader to hunt with, and initially thought a ball couldn't possibly be very effective beyond 50 yds, but from the many folks here and elsewhere have given enough evidence as to its effectiveness that I dropped consideration of other projectiles for the most part, though I'd use a conical if given the chance to hunt elk or other larger game with my .50 cal.

 

[wattlebuster]

Maybe this is kinda what your wanting to see. Top pic is a 54 from about 40 yrds IIRC.

2nd pic is from a 62 from about 35 yrds

 

[robert reed]

.50 cal rb at 7 yards

 

[daniel collums]

no this isn't what i was asking about, but i sure like seeing black powder trophies. i want to see the damage done on the inside. it gives you a better understanding of internal damage. like a picture of opened chest cavity with organs showing damage and a good picture after the cavity has been cleaned showing the interior holes entering and exiting. that will give reference to how much a factor a round ball damage causes other than a outside picture of the hole in the hide. thanks for the nice trophy picture. toccopola

 

[wattlebuster]

Sorry :idunno: but I dont have any of the such. You might can check some of greenmntboy's older posts. Seems like I remember Nathan posting a few pics of an elks heart with roundball damage and some ribcage too. :hatsoff:

 

[54ball]

My honest opinion, If someone has to have a detailed animal autopsy to be convinced of the long proven killing power of the patched round ball, maybe they need to stick with their "aught six."

 

[S.Kenton]

I took a nice doe with my Hawken 54 cal some years back.. 50 yrds and complete pass through breaking ribs on impact and upon exit. The internals were a mess..I DID take some pics but I can't seem to find them.

 

[roundball]

Heart shot an 8 point buck head on at 40 yards...dropped in his tracks...this .600" ball traveled through the full length of the buck, stopping bulging under the hide on the backside of his right ham...the insides would have been such a complete mess I wouldn't have wanted to dress it out...the good news is I give all mine to a couple needy families and didn't have to.

 

[coloradoclyde]

.50 cal rb at 7 yards

UMM! is that a traditional muzzleloader? :shocked2: sure looks like an inline to me.

 

[silly goose]

I'm not a betting man, but my money says its a T/C (I'm cheating, I actually saw a pic with the whole rifle.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I see it's got a sidelock. I'll refrain from any further comment. :td:

 

[robert reed]

it's a tc grey hawk it was the first ml I bought. It was rainy the night before so that was the one I had loaded. I now have 2 more and am customizing another.

 

[Stumpkiller]

Not much help. I was taught to always tuck the deer's tongue in and put something over the wound out of respect to the deer; gloves, firearm or quiver.

 

[rodwha]

"If someone has to have a detailed animal autopsy to be convinced of the long proven killing power of the patched round ball, maybe they need to stick with their "aught six."

But that kind of attitude is what may help to keep the traditional ways dying out until it's eventually gone.

When I first became interested, and understanding modern ballistics ran the numbers for a PRB I couldn't understand how a ball could possibly be effective beyond maybe 50 yds at best. Had I not poked around a bit and asked many questions I would have gone the way of the modern stuff unmentioned around these parts as even a conical isn't that great on paper in comparison.

 

[Stringbean]

+1 on that. After getting started into flintlocks in the late 90's I was too scared to try the "underpowered" prb. Finally, a couple of years ago, an old timer taught me how to properly load and shoot a flintlock and round ball. Even killed a late season doe here in PA with a .445 ball and dropped her in her tracks. Prb is all I use now. They do the job and do it in style.

 

[54ball]

I may have read it wrong, if so my apologies to Toccopola but I feel that question was somewhat "loaded".

Photos of wounds, deer on the ground, accounts, ect ect, none of that was good enough, he wanted detailed photos of wound cavities and shredded organs to be convinced. He also wanted yardage, weight of projectile and weight of the harvested animal.

OK I guess I can understand where he is coming from a cold technical stand point, especially if he has been in ballistic books or read some of the propaganda of modern muzzleloaders. The only way to market those is at the expense of traditional shooters and their guns however false that may be especially since they cannot compete against centerfire magnums in the "Jello Factor".

Hunting with a traditional muzzleloader to me is a much more intimate experience. With a smoothbore I have to get set up very close. Being so close I see things many do not. The eyes, the interaction of deer with one another up close, the playfulness, the alert. When you face one of those magnificent critters eye to eye and he makes you, at that moment, he knows it and you know it and you fire.

I always feel some regret. Many a time I have let one walk, just being satisfied in knowing my set up worked. I don't have anything to prove.

Deer are emotional and intelligent critters. One of the most heart breaking things I have seen in the game I have taken was a 4point I took with a .45 roundball. He went less than 50 yards. There were marks on his side where he had been pawed by another deer, not violently but gently, as if another deer was trying to wake him up.

To sum it up, posting pictures of wound channels and shattered organs of such magnificent creatures just to prove a point, for me crosses my line of good taste and respect for those critters.

I'm sure that aspect did not occur to the OP.

 

[Roguedog]

54,
I think you summed it up well. There is an intense respect that I have for the game being hunted. The kill is no longer important to me but rather the experience of nature up close. I hunt for food and for the joy of being in the woods, but the kill has become somewhat bittersweet for me. After a successful hunt, I am joyous but at the same time somewhat saddened to see the magnificent creature lying dead before me that was just a few moments earlier full of life. For non-hunters to say that we don't respect the animals we hunt is ridiculous! Having said all of that, I believe I know what the original poster is getting at. Hard evidence seen with the eyes is very convincing and will prove beyond doubt that a patched roundball is very effective. However, out of respect to the game, I'd rather not see pictures of bloody and butchered deer posted on the internet but I do not judge those that feel differently.

Jeff

 

[Roguedog]

I don't have any autopsy photos to share but I can tell you this for your own mind to envision. Last year I shot a nice sized buck (150 lbs) with a .54 cal roundball. The shot was approximately 50 yards. I was using a .530 caliber roundball in front of 70 grains of 3F blackpowder. The shot was broadside and dead centered the lungs. The deer turned and ran about 30 yards before collapsing stone dead. The shot passed completely through the deer hence the projectile was not recovered. The hole going through the ribcage on both sides was approximately 1 inch in diameter. The ball hit a rib on the way out and was not even phased. It just kept on going. The internal damage was significant. The round ball hit the deer hard, it expanded to larger than original size and kept going all the way through providing an entry and exit hole. There is not much more I can say about it. The roundball is a very effective projectile when used properly and within it's effective range. I hope this helps.

Jeff