Pietta Model 1858 brass

[cannonball028]

I am thinking about ordering a Pietta Model 1858 New Army Brass 44cal from cabelas.
I like to hear some reviews and hows the quality ??

 

[AZbpBurner]

Spend a little more and get the steel frame. Brass is fine for light loads, but sooner or later you're gonna want to fill it up and fire off some hot loads. While the brass frame doesn't actually stretch as some folks contend, battering from the cylinder star against the softer brass frame will eventually lead to increased cylinder gap.

 

[hawkeye2]

I realize that they are on sale right now but I would wait till the all steel '58 goes on sale which happens frequently and buy one of them. Treated with respect a brass frame Remington will give you years of service but it does have some limiting factors and there was never a real brass frame Remington '58 so it isn't authentic. With loads under 25 grains of 3f it the brass frame will hold up reasonably well and you will find the most accurate loads below 25 grains. The full frame is stronger than the Colt design and you won't have problems with the arbor (cylinder pin) shooting loose but the face of the recoil shield is still subject to battering by the ratchet area of the cylinder when firing and the clearance will eventually increase showing up as a larger cylinder/barrel gap over time. Pietta's quality is quite good and the 5.5" Remington I bought a couple of years back was very good right out of the box. Timing is good, locks up tight, trigger was just under 3 lbs. and crisp, no creep.

 

[larry wv]

The price for the better 1858 is only 20 dollars more. 200 vs 220 no reason to buy the brass model. :wink:

Larry

 

[TNGhost]

If you like the looks, go with the brass and don't worry, just keep the loads around 20grs. It'll be a good load for paper.

If the brass vs. steel look doesn't matter, or if you plan on using it for self defense or hunting, where you need stiffer charges, then go steel.

 

[hawkeye2]

Yes! The all steel '58 is on sale right now for $219.99 and free shipping (2 days only).

 

[Poor Private]

But some of us will use brass because of various:
reasons:
1- It looks so nice all polished and shiny
2- A bit cheaper in cost, and to run on a limited budget.
3- The 2 of 3 confederate manufactured revolvers were in brass and goes with the impression your doing.
4- you just want to be contrary.

 

[azmntman]

But some of us will use brass because of various:
reasons:
1- It looks so nice all polished and shiny
2- A bit cheaper in cost, and to run on a limited budget.
3- The 2 of 3 confederate manufactured revolvers were in brass and goes with the impression your doing.
4- you just want to be contrary.

:thumbsup:

 

[Artificer]

But some of us will use brass because of various:
reasons:
1- It looks so nice all polished and shiny
2- A bit cheaper in cost, and to run on a limited budget.
3- The 2 of 3 confederate manufactured revolvers were in brass and goes with the impression your doing.
4- you just want to be contrary.

The following is not meant to be contrary, but rather to discuss the points you raised.

Numbers 1 and 4 are subjective and/or personal opinion that is up to each individual.

"2- A bit cheaper in cost, and to run on a limited budget."

There is a small short term savings with a brass frame, but if one is going to shoot this type of handgun a lot, then the steel frame one will last longer and that makes it far less expensive over the course of many years. You can also shoot heavier loads in the steel frame over a much longer length of time without repairs being needed. There is no difference in the cost to shoot a brass frame vs a steel frame with similar loads.

"3- The 2 of 3 confederate manufactured revolvers were in brass and goes with the impression your doing."

Well, except there were no Confederate direct copies of the Remington M1858 revolver. So a Remington in the hands of Confederate troops were always steel frames.

The original Spiller & Burr aka Whitney full frame brass revolvers were very noticeably different from the Remingtons and there have been fairly good replicas of them around since the 1960's/70's. Also to be fair, the original Spiller & Burr revolvers would never have been accepted because they were often so poor quality, if the shortage of revolvers had not been so dire.

The real problem for anyone doing a Confederate Impression with a brass/bronze frame revolver is it would only be correct for a later Mid to Late War impression. This plus the fact that given a choice, most Confederates would have used steel frame guns as they were much better quality and more sure for combat. If one wants to do a Confederate Impression for the entire War with a revolver, then a steel frame is the only way to go for the most authentic impression.

Gus

 

[Poor Private]

Artificer'
You are wrong in many ways. Brass is cheaper to run if run right. You use lighter loads so your cost per shot goes down. Basically what you do is use them not abuse them!. And my 2 oldest pistols are a couple of Brassers. I have had them for years one is a non copy of anything brass .44 short barrel that is my wifes' favorite pistol, and my other is a Brass framed Spiller & Burr that was made from a kit a long time ago. Both are up and runnning and the only issue was the trigger/stop spring for the .44.
As to use only in mid to late war your wrong there as well. Grisswold & Gunnison Turned out thier .36 caliber from July 1862(doesn't look like mid or late war). This per "Confederate Arms" BY Albaugh and Simmons 1963. Broadfoot Publishing.
Spiller & Burr also began production in 1862- tho I will give you the mid war of 1863. Information from the same book.
Many people prefer the brass framed over steel framed other wise they wouldn't sell or manufacture so many. Cost difference is only a few bucks in purchasing, Of the dozen or so of BP pistols that I currently own I believe 4 are brassers. And am currently going to buy the Griswald & Gunnison shortly.
Maybe the steel frame will outlast the brass frame if your shooting thousands of rounds through it. But for the average once in a while or monthly shooter they will last for years. By the way my Brass framed .44 Navy Arms with a 5" barrel is my wifes' go to pistol in BP and it was proofed in 1989,27 years ago which is alot longer than some of our members have been alive.
I am tired of some people saying the only way to go is steel, it's not.

 

[Artificer]

I thought we were talking about a brass framed Remington copy in this thread, not Colt copies?

Even so the Griswold's were no where near the quality of the Colt and the early production rates were only 25 revolvers a week or less (later on production up to 100 a week the following year), so they did not come into large distribution to Field Troops until at the earliest late 1862 and really early 1863. It doesn't matter when they BEGAN production of the guns, but rather when the guns got into the hands of Confederate Troops and in quantity.

Of course you shoot a lighter load with a brass frame revolver to make it last longer because you HAVE to do so. However as I pointed out above, with the same lighter loads, the steel frame revolvers are just as cheap to shoot, last longer and actually require less maintenance. That makes them cheaper overall.

I worked UnCivil War Period guns at the NSSA Spring and Fall National Championships from 1974 to 2005. Skirmishers who fired MANY times the amount of light target loads compared to most other people, chose steel frames for these reasons.

Finally, I never wrote or intended that Bronze framed revolvers were not used by the South. What I did write was if one wanted to have the correct pistol for ALL of the UnCivil War period, then the only authentic thing is to use a steel frame revolver.

Gus

 

[Treestalker]

The main thing about brass framed revolvers is to get a tight one to begin with and treat it like an older car, rode easy and put up dry and clean. I regret selling my Spiller and Burr .36 cal years ago and would grab another in a heartbeat. I have been burned on a 'confederate navy' that had been monkeyed into tightness and shot loose after only about a dozen Light loads. I have recently aquired a Griswold and Gunnison copy which I must put a hand spring in and is tight and fairly new in condition. I admire the Connfederate revolvers and feel a kinship through them to my GGgrandgfather John Julian who fought with the 1st Arkansas Cavalry. Many cavalrymen carried as many revolvers as they could for firepower in hit and run tactics. I'm sure they would have used Any available revolver that worked! My favorite is the Leech and Rigdon steel frame but the brassers just have that history of 'make do'. Love 'em. George.

 

[Robert Egler]

I have both the brass and steel frame Remingtons from Cabelas. I like them both. I usually shoot moderately light loads in both, 25 to 30g 2F. Never saw a lot of sense in using heavy loads to punch holes in paper myself. When I carry one as a trapline gun it could be either one, usually with 30g 2F. Shot to the head of a raccoon or possum also doesn't require a heavy load.

 

[cynthialee]

You don't need heavy powder charges to drop an animal. Talk to the coyote I dropped with just 17 grains of 3F pushing a .454 pistol ball. He didn't seem to notice the shot was anemic.

 

[john gill]

Yes! The all steel '58 is on sale right now for $219.99 and free shipping (2 days only).

Cabela's has an even better deal where you get the steel 1858 plus a spare cylinder for $250. A couple weeks ago it was just $230. Their price for a cylinder bought separately is $60.

 

[Black Jack]

Speaking of brass, I just looked and the 1851 with 5 1/2 in. barrel is on sale for 139.95. I'm tempted even though I don't need one.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The brassers were made and used by the Confederates because they didn't have enough steel. They are very good guns, just don't overcharge them. The '51 Navy .44s were known as the "confederate navies" as they were brass and larger caliber (.44) than the Union ones. This is the gun General Lee carried if I remember right.

 

[Zonie]

According to all of my information, all of the Confederate made revolvers (except for a few Dance Brothers guns) were .36 caliber.

The Confederate contract description of the acceptable revolvers say they are to be based on the .36 caliber 1851 Colt Navy.

It should be remembered, the .44 caliber revolvers in use in 1861 were the Colt Dragoons, a saddle pistol seldom carried by troops who were not in the Calvary.

 

[Poor Private]

Except of course the Spiller & Burr, it was based upon the Whitney. And in .36 caliber.

 

[Zonie]

Actually, the the information I have for the contract for the Spiller & Burr read just like the contract for all of the other Confederate suppliers except it also included a requirement to silver plate all of the exposed brass surfaces.

I've never been able to figure out why a contract that clearly describes a 1851 Colt could be used to authorize the buying of a "Whitney" knock off but I suppose getting any kind of revolver was more important than the fine print in the contract.