Pitting in Damascus

[CoyoteJoe]

The story I'm getting is a grandfather who was a retired gunsmith passed away and left behind boxes and boxes of unfinished projects. Grand kids are just now selling off old stuff. Within one of these boxes was a set of "W Richards" barrels still on the action but nothing else. Nice looking engraving, no rust visible, bores look good.

"Still on the action" So are these breech loading barrels? But you intend to build a muzzleloader out of them? If so that will complicate things since you'd have to make breechplugs with chamber sleeves or cut them off at the breech and loose a couple of inches of barrel length.

 

[Supercracker]

you'd have to make breechplugs with chamber sleeves

Yep. I saw a video about it once on facebook. So I should be ok.




J/K. I know I'm gonna have to make sleeve/plugs. I'm pretty handy with a lathe. This would be a project down the road a ways any way. Just picking up the barrels while I have the opportunity.


I'm not opposed to liners if needed. I just hope not.

 

[Jblk]

The old damacus barrels are beautiful to look at and the guns are a pleasure to point and hold.but I think that if you value your hands thae should be the extent of their use.Sure there are some quality shotguns out there that were preserved but they are the exception and not the rule.I have a old ML double with steel barrels but I still proofed it with five drams of powder and two ounces of shot twice before I would ever consider shooting a light twelve gague load.With all of the replicas that are available why would you want to place yourself in harms way.

 

[Dave K]

Go and read Double Gun Journal at their website. It may answer the questions you have. It has for many others and be sure to search it fully to get a full understanding. Please remember! Just because it is fluid or in other words not Damascus, Twist, Laminated or any other composite barrel barrel does not mean they are safe or the others are dangerous. Even the fluid barrels have had inclusions in the barrels and they failed. If the barrels are in GOOD condition and are shot to or under a preasure that they were designed for, they should be no more dangerous than any barrel that is shot as they are designed to be used. No should and no one person can, say that any explosion taking place in your hands is totally safe. I shoot allot of composite barrels, I feel confident in their use for me. If it is not for you, I wouldn't do it. http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php

 

[Supercracker]

Ok, they've finally arrived and they look better than I thought. There is really almost zero pitting visible.

They are certainly a Belgian fake and not genuine W Richards but will still make a fine set of barrels for a flinter if they check out good.

Gonna try to figure out how to take some pics of the bores to put up.

 

[Lorne Johnson]

Minimal pitting is more important than their address!

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Ther was (and still is) a legitimate English gunmaking firm out of Liverpool with the moniker W. Richards. They started out way back in the late 18th century. Maybe you've got a real Fab gun from Liverpool you swingin' anglophile you. Or maybe you're stuck with JABC (just another Belgian clunker), but think positive. Listen to side 3 of the White Album and watch the patterns in the damascus barrels, then you'll know for sure.

 

[Supercracker]

It has 'W-Richards London Fine Laminated Steel" on the top rib. It is browned and in very good shape.

TBH the thing that most makes me think it is JABC (nice...haha) is the engraving. Wesley Richards is about as good as it gets in terms of quality. Up there with Holland and Holland. The engraving on this action is just not the quality I would expect to see from that kind of high end builder.

As I said, even if it is a forgery, it's a nice old set of barrels that, with luck, I can make chamber liners for and make a nice flinter out of.

Although, I'll say again. If it does turn out to be a genuine 110 year old Wesley Richards that changes the whole picture. I don't think I could take the bandsaw to a set of genuine WR barrels. The action is only a tad loose and the release functions well. It really would only need new wood made, some back action locks, and to design and make a set of triggers and firing pins. Not really a huge job. Certainly no more so than using it to make a flintlock double. Get/make some low power shells and go mildly inconvenience some quail with my wildly inaccurate shooting.

 

[Supercracker]

Look at the bottom of the barrel, near the breech. If you see an ELG, the barrels anyhow were made in Belgium. That does not make it a bad gun! If the gun fits you well and you just plain like it. Fix it and use it

Nope. Don't see that at all.

Just a "CT" the serial # the gauge (it turned out to be a 14 btw) and some dust.

Running the serial # on the WR site spits out that it was made in 1922. Of course it could still be a fake the serial number just still be in the same range and that date be for some wacky NE double rifle shipped to India.

 

[robinghewitt]

Gauge is good, the Belgies tend to show bore size in mm.

Breech loading arrived in the UK with pin fire at the Great Exhibition of 1851.

1822 would be either flint or a novel detonator system.

Westeley's engraving tends towards minimalist.

Can do a pic of WR damascus pattern if you want.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Uhhhhhhhh I have a Westley Richards 12 bore built in 1890. It'got beautiful 28" damascus barrels, proofed for 2 3/4" (chambers must have been lengthened before shipping to America, I suppose) instead of the usual 2 1/2" for an oldie like this. Trust me.. You do not have a Westley Richards gun. But you already knew that. Every space on the frame of mine is covered with lavish, beautiful engraving - gorgeous. But hey, you didn't spend Westley Richards money, right? That's a positive. It may be that everything will work out and you'll have a good shooter anyway.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. The barrels are NITRO proofed.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Squire Robin - Almost all of the "minimalist" engraved Westleys are the "gold name"s, which do nothing for me at all, even though Westley Richards is just about my favorite British maker. A lot of the others I've seen through the years, including rifles, are quite lavishly engraved. Especially mine. I thought at first that the dog engraved on the underside of the trigger guard may have been "after market" until I saw a WR double rifle with a tiger in the same place, unmistakably engraved in the same manner. Anyway, my point is just that mine is the exact opposite of minimalist, and those in the movement back in the '70's would agree!

 

I have a W.Richards 16 bore percussion double barrel with 36" tubes and conventional bar locks, not back action, in what I would call 90% condition. There is no engraving but there is checkering on the wrist and forearm and the stock is walnut. The barrels are marked fine twist and have a nice, but plain, pattern on them and very little pitting in the bores.The gun is definitley a shooter with Belgian proofs but it is not a Westley Richards. I don't know how to post pictures but can send you some.
Mark

 

[Marc Adamchek]

Squire Robin et al - I should stop posting past my bedtime. I meant to write that all of the minimalist Westley's I'VE SEEN are the goldnames et c etc etc . I've been mis-typing a lot in my latest posts and what i meant to say gets skewed and some guy who won the spelling bee in the 4th grade and still wants the world to know it 50 years later jumps down my throat. Silly? Latent tendencies? I'm no doctor. Just don't want to be sued for malpractice.

 

[robinghewitt]

I had a dealer friend phone to say he had a couple of guns for me, part of a job lot he'd bought. The Westley cost me about $435. It's a bit outside my period but I liked the incredibly slim wrist. I found a picture of a bygone Prince of Wales holding one just like it which was fun but I am no expert on Westley engraving, I don't see that many of them. In The Shotgun History and Development by Boothroyd page 196 there's a picture of the same gun with the same firing pin conversion but having the fancy engraving.

 

[Marc Adamchek]

It's all a part of what keeps us hooked for life, eh? It's so very hard to explain to people, even longtime friends, what drives my/our passion for "guns", a word so commonly mouthed with contempt by those who'll never understand.