Point of impact shift.

[MedicMike3762]

@Greenjoytj thank you that is a very thorough explanation and I never considered that! Also a very good idea with the brass rod! As it so happens I have a .535 RB mold!

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

I had to go back and read the original post again. I didn’t see that he wrote 100 yard offhanded. Heck I’m happy to get all my shots in the black of a target at 100 yards using a bench rest and sandbags. OP it is my firm belief that muzzleloader groups should be determined at 50 yards off of a bench and bags. Offhanded at any distances is a fruitless endeavor to determine groups.

Larry

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

-0° windshield washer fluid.

Thank you TreeMan. I use windex which may? be similar. My method is unusual, but works for me. I punch the tight ball/"dry" patch with the ball starter, then squirt windex on top of the ball/patch to the muzzle (only about 1/8" or so), then the rest of the way with the 4" ball starter....it soaks the patch fabric on the sides of the ball where it counts wetting against the rifling residue as it goes down the barrel with the ramrod, but not wetting the bottom of the ball, thereby not affecting the powder with wetness once the ball/patch is pushed down the bore to the powder. Been doing that, right or wrong, for 50 years of fairly consistent patterns. Examining the patches after firing always shows powder rifling residue on the outer perimeter of the solid patch. I don't swab between shots.

 

[2 shots]

maybe try a wad

 

[XVIIc Wheelock]

So far, no extra steps or wads needed .......

 

[MedicMike3762]

At 36” long barrel + loose PRB + fouling from 3 previous shots + high MV from very large powder charge of fast (3fg) powder = PRP mostly skidding across fouling filled in rifling, the barrel starts acting like a partial smooth bore, therefore the useful grouping ability with this load combination in this barrel barrel is gone.

Your PRB is just barely taking rifling imparted rotation in a clean bore.
The slow twist in clean rifling and the long barrel imparts just enough rotational stabilization to the PRB to lull you into thinking you’ve discovered a great load.

In reality it a one trick pony, or rather a 1 to 2 shot accurate rifle.
It maybe fine for hunting big game but it‘s a dud for all day target practice at the range without a lot of wiping between shots to keep the PRB on target.

I would perform the following test:
Use a larger .535” ball and your regular patch material.
In a clean barrel insert a 6” x 1/2” brass rod, start the larger PRB ½” into the bore.
Now gently remove the PRB slide hammer fashion via the brass rod previously inserted.

The test is to see if your PRB has acquired the proper pattern of light and heavy patch weave marks embossed into the lead ball. You must see lightly embossed weave marks over the grooves and a deeper embossed weave pattern over the lands of the rifling.
It you don’t see this proper all around weave marks then use slightly thicker patch materia.

The ball is gripped by the patch and the patch takes the rifling.
At the moment of firing the ball is slugged up wider by the sudd acceleration and the mass of the ball must obey Newtons First Law of motion so it gets slightly wider getting an even better grip on the patch and rifling.

A larger PRB would be better served by by reducing the MV by using a lesser charge weight and the long barrel would make good use of slower burning 2fg powder so you could use less Powder. Smaller powder charge would not clog the rifling as quickly.

The tight fitting PRB is harder to load but that’s is because it is cleaning the rifling a bit as it is pushed down. Thereby extending the accurate shoot ability of the barrel before wet swapping is needed if ever.

100yds off hand shooting proves the skill of the rifleman but requires a proven accurate rifle and that is determined by bench rest shooting until a tight grouping load is developed.

Well, I grabbed the rifle and some 535s and 530s it appears the 530s are too small with my patches. .018 pillow ticking. The 535s have a nice patch imprint all the way around and the 530s do not. Here are some pics of my balls! (Couldn’t resist) . The lighter ball is the 530. Guess I’ll start with the 535s!

 

[Vtmountaindeerhunter]

Will I personally never shoot the same place twice. I always get the most out of my target. But that is the best looking rifle I have seen on this forum

 

[45man]

I agree with a barrel being "shot smooth" as Bill Large told me this years ago. He said old timers would fill the bore with urine overnight to etch it back.
I also agree with a .535 ball and tight patch to see material engraved at the grooves. A 1 in 72 twist indeed needs velocity but I would be using FFG. My load is a .535 ball, .020 denim patch and 100 gr of FFG. It has held stable groups to 200 meters. First shot to over 200 without wiping. If things tighten up I apply more lube to the next patch.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The debate whether to swab or not swab between shots will never end. I am an advocate of swabbing between every shot. To not do so you are, in effect, shooting with a different barrel every time. Now, a 1:72" twist is very hard to dial in. I had a .54 with 1:72 and it would not group until my charges went north of 120 gr of real bp. No fun to shoot at all.

 

[Red Owl]

I think you are needlessly worrying. I had one situation where I reloaded "fast" on a downed animal that needed another shot but over and above that, they critter either drops or takes off through scrub/brush and I wait a bit and then slowly follow up. If it is still kicking the next shot is usually close range where an accuracy issue isn't critical but I still wipe between shots if I have time. Have that first shot okay and you should be god to go. On the difference after 3-4 shots, to be honest- I don't know. Every rifle is different.

 

[mtfishn]

I also agree with a .535 ball and tight patch to see material engraved at the grooves. A 1 in 72 twist indeed needs velocity but I would be using FFG. My load is a .535 ball, .020 denim patch and 100 gr of FFG. It has held stable groups to 200 meters. First shot to over 200 without wiping. If things tighten up I apply more lube to the next patch.

I can agree some rifles may like a heavier or lighter charge for best performance, but not all slow twisted .54s (1/72) require that much velocity/spin to shoot well. I have a Rice1/70 twist barrel that will touch bullets at 25 and 50 with as little as 55 grains of FFF. I prefer 80 or more at 100 where it also shoots well. I do believe the larger calibers require less spin than the smaller diameter round balls.