POLL - Why People Don't Unload a ML

[paulvallandigham]

If shooters had access to the annual Hunter Accident reports for their states, I don't think we would see as many shooters keeping loaded guns in their cars, or over a season.

There can always be exceptions, of course, and I don't knock anyone who chooses to keep a gun loaded if he is confident that it will fire the next day "as is".

But, the accidental shootings that are reported each year are eye-opening, and make everyone rethink how they carry and transport firearms. You also decide to be a lot more picky about who you choose as a hunting partner!

 

[Dphar]

I have a leather cover I use in hunting season. It was dosed with Sno-Seal years ago and it still mostly water proof.
My loaded hunting rifle comes to the house in the cover and stays in it till it goes out again. This is my "its loaded" flag.
Horror stories abound concerning ADs.
I was once in a room with someone with poor to non-existent firearms training, we soon discovered. He watched a friend load and holster his 22 revolver and say "its ready to go" and while the friend and I were otherwise occupied he picked it up and shot a hole in the ceiling of an adjoining room though the doorway (2 people in that room).
Neither I nor my friend could have known or even guessed this would occur.
The AD was TOTALLY the fault of the person who picked up something he was, unknown to us, unfamiliar with.
I once k new a 2nd LT in the infantry who had his M-16 fire a round while he was holding it. Fortunately it was not while he was behind anyone on patrol at the time. He could not maintain an interval either...
I was present on a range when a cheap factory made ML that was not properly set on 1/2 cock (cheap lock and triggers of course) went off while pointed straight up. How it missed the owners hat brim is still a mystery.
I once had a flint rifle fire when the cock hooked a vine and pulled back almost to full cock and then before I could stop moving the vine released it and the gun fired. Fly was not properly timed and kicked forward before the sear could catch the full cock. This was a 1960s not so cheap lock. For the past 40 years I now fix this "error" if it is present on any lock I get.
Back in the day people used to get shot by pulling guns muzzle first from a wagon etc.
Not so long ago a poster on a ML site was describing a friend being shot in the arm in this manner by a rifle musket that had been capped and then the cap removed to make the gun safe in a vehicle.
He stated that static electricity was the likely cause. The problem is the static will not ignite BP.
I explained that it was more likely cap residue on the nipple and in moving the gun the hammer rubbed or otherwise "excited" the residue. If it cannot be static is must be another cause.
The common thread in almost all firearms accidents is poor gun handling.
Working with firearms everyday requires a higher level of awareness so that constant contact does not erode ones safety processes.
Then there is the "other guy" problem. I used to work in a gun factory. One check was to fire a primed case to check firing pin strike to assure the breech block was properly positioned. The tester had a box of primed cases of various calibers that he primed in batches as needed.
Someone, the "other guy", in the shop found a "primed case" and put it in the box, but it also contained about 65 grains of BP and a card wad. As a result a brand new rifle was dropped on a concrete floor and the tester needed a "time out" (as did I being 10 ft away) for some time to collect his nerves.
Firearms require constant adherence to safety processes. Children in households with guns MUST BE TRAINED as soon as they are old enough to pick one up and function it. They must be DRILLED on the CLEAR THE GUN FIRST rule as well as how they function. They MUST be allowed to have supervised access to the guns and shooting to allow them to get over the curiosity/novelty phase. Hiding the guns, locking them up is a good security measure, unless its needed for defense then its just silly, but TRAINING and constant re-enforcement will last forever and always works.
I was recently in ML gun makers shop. We were examining ML firearms, sparking the locks, etc. HOWEVER, the loading rod was bounced on the breech of each. He KNEW they were safe. But he followed PROPER SAFETY PROTOCOL everytime. There simply is no other option. The firearm must be "cleared" before further examination.
I realize I am "preaching to the choir". But it needs to be restated now and then.

Dan

 

[410-er]

I don't pull the tips off my centerfire shells when I'm finished hunting.I put them in my pocket. :hmm: I guess depending how they would hit each other they could go off.I only fire a muzzy load off after hunting in foul weather.

 

[tg]

"I don't pull the tips off my centerfire shells when I'm finished hunting.I put them in my pocket."

Modern gun are not always as safe as we think, I unloaded the clip on my mdl 88 years ago at camp and stuck the clip in one pocket and had a plastic box of xtra ammo in the other vest posket I bent over to stoke the fire and the box fell out at the edge of the fire and several rounds went into the coals...run or retrive, I scraped all the rounds out with a handy piece of bark (I hoped)then stood back for a while just in case. I have never had a svcary thing like that happen with a ML.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I remember reading of a outdoor photographer who put some .22LR shells in his pocket and then during some night-time picture-taking at the campsight he put his replaced flash battery from the camera in the same pocket. He was walking across the campground and a "BANG!" . . . feather down from his vest puffed all over and he felt the punch and thought he'd been shot in the chest and was screaming "HEY!", "HUMAN!" and stirred up the camp.

No harm done - except the ruin of a down vest and probably soiled undershorts. The brass casings shorted out across the terminals of the battery and one cooked off.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I was my dishes each time I use them. I do not wash my car each time I use it. Apples & oranges.

I usually have a wife at home waiting for me to take her out to dinner. I don't have an hour to waste cleaning a gun, because I shot it when there was nothing to shoot at.

I don't believe it has ever taken more than 15 minutes to clean one of my muzzleloaders, and I'm pretty finicky about it. And I haven't lost a gun to rust or anything else. :v

 

[Robert Egler]

I don't believe it has ever taken more than 15 minutes to clean one of my muzzleloaders, and I'm pretty finicky about it. And I haven't lost a gun to rust or anything else. :v

15 minutes? Hmm... I am doing something wrong, it takes me a good hour and half :hmm:

 

[shmrck1]

If you mean by unloading after the hunt,you mean
after the hunt,that is my vote. I usually hunt
deer for three days.If I don't get a shot during
those three days,I continue to use the original
load for those days. When done with my three
day hunt,I clear the barrel with a CO2 discharge
helper.
snake-eyes :hmm:

 

[rafterob]

You want the ATF to find that still? What you doing posting a picture of it on the web fer?

 

[RC]

You want the ATF to find that still? What you doing posting a picture of it on the web fer?

but, but, but....I share... :rotf:

 

[renovato]

To all the "there's no reason to unload" responses, I'll counter with "there's no reason not to". A CO2 discharger only takes seconds and doesn't foul the barrel. I unload every night and start the next day with a fresh charge. Maybe there's no reason to do that, but it gives me peace of mind and fits within my "an ounce of prevention" mindset.

 

[Walks Alone]

Just one more of the reasons why I have almost always hunted alone most of my life. As a kid growing up I saw a few close calls (by relatives no less) on family deer/elk hunts who didn't unload their guns around camp.

It doesn't come up very often because I prefer to and do hunt alone 99.9% of the time... but if you don't unload, you won't hunt with me.

To each his own, but that's mine.

 

[FishDFly]

I was at the local shoot yesterday and one member said he had a pistol that he had loaded two (2) years ago for deer hunting and that it had not been shot since loading. He said that he wanted to shoot it after everyone was finished.

I asked him how much powder he used for deer hunting and he said he could not remember, but it had a 250 grain slug in it and it was a 50 cal.

I am not sure of the make of the pistol, but it looked somewhat like a Traditions Trapper. The noise was substantial when it went off to everyone’s surprise.

He stood there a bit and said that he had to find the end of the cleaning rod that was in the pistol. The recoil had sheared off the ram rod tip.

He came over to the group and asked if anyone knew how to sew as he was going to need some sutures. The wood wedged shape piece on the stock that is supposed to stop/reduce the upward recoil had slashed open the area of skin between his thumb and index finger. The area was cut extremely deep and the bone on his thumb from the joint to the wrist most likely was broken due to the dis-coloration and swelling.

We did the Nurse/EMT thing on him from the kit in my truck and off he went to the hospital.

The pistol was a smooth bore and it showed no sign of damage other than the ramrod tip being blown off. Kind of wonder if the slug had slide down the barrel in two (2) years since there was no rifling to hold the slug. He carried the pistol in a belt holster.

RDE

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Bill Hickok unloaded his Navy Colts every day regardless of weather conditions or anything else. When asked why he did this, he is said to have replied that "he had to be sure". Now, I don't expect a deer to suddenly whip around and open up on me with a Navy Colt, but Hickok's thought is a good one.

But, to be truthful, mostly it is just because I enjoy shooting my guns. :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

If he didn't know how much powder he put in that pistol, he also doesn't know WHAT powder he put in the barrel. Who can say? A 250 grain bullet in a BP pistol does not sound like anything I have ever seen recommended? Where did he get the idea to load something like that????

At least the owner hurt only himself. He is the one totally responsible for what he put in that gun.

I once listened to a fellow brag about having blow up a couple of Ruger Blackhawk and Super Black hawk .44 magnums, because he loaded Bullseye instead of Dupont 2400 powder in the casings. And then Brag that he also blew up a couple of Ruger Blackhawks in .41 magnum doing the same thing!

I found that I had eased back and was standing about 15 feet from the man when he finished giving the group the details about his last "adventure". His excuse was that he had been out drinking until the bars closed, before he began reloading his ammo for the next day!

There was NO ONE standing closer to the guy than I was, when I finally turned around and walked away.

 

[FishDFly]

Paul,

In considering things I was not really detailed in my thinking and writing.

This person had a pistol loaded for two (2) years.
He carried it in a holster with the barrel down for who knows how many trips/times to and from the field while deer hunting.

He unholstered the pistol and shot it. He did not check to see if the slug was still seated on the powder. How many people after carrying a gun in the field check to see if the ball/slug is still seated on the powder?

Not many I guess.

Second, with the configuration of the pistol grip, if you over load the pistol or put to large of a projectile in it, the design of the grip is going to do damage your hand. This is going to happen, I looked at the pistol as did several others.

As I see it, the problems are:

1. Poor pistol grip design
2. Too large of a slug
3. Grains of powder loaded, who knows
4. Carrying pistol down in holster
5. Carrying a slug in a pistol in the down
position with no rifling to hold the slug in
place.

His chances would have been reduced if he had unloaded the gun at the end of the day with a CO2 discharger.

After the hospital charges, I have a feeling he may own one.

RDE

 

[Protrucker]

I voted, "all of the above"
If there had been a choice of, "it's not necessary," that's what I would have chosen. I don't feel like it's a safety hazard any more than parking your car in the garage without draining the gas out of the tank. I mean.....do you drain the gas so that the wrong person (kid's or whoever) won't start it & have an accident, or to avoid the slim chance that your car will catch fire & burn the house down while you sleep? :youcrazy:

 

[Dave K]

I am so afraid of my black powder lighting off and catching the house on fire without me knowing it, I have now moved all of my powder to under the bed! I should catch it early that way. :wink:

 

[Robert Egler]

I am so afraid of my black powder lighting off and catching the house on fire without me knowing it, I have now moved all of my powder to under the bed! I should catch it early that way. :wink:

:rotf: sounds logical to me! :wink:

 

[Speed Trap]

I'm like most people here, but a friend of mine is pure lazy. A couple of years ago he got all upset because he had a "misfire" three times at a nice buck. Buck got tired of waiting to die and ran off. Kevin got back to camp and was telling me about it and I got to looking at his rig. His #11's looked like crud and I asked him how old these were. His response, about 10 years old. I gave him some new #11's and told him to try this out now. He capped the gun, pulled the trigger and about a 2 second delay, BOOM. I asked him when did he load the gun and he said it had been loaded since last year, no need to unload it, because if he did, he wold have to clean it.