• Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.

    We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.

    Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103

Poor Spark on a GPR

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

R.M.

50 Cal.
Joined
Mar 3, 2005
Messages
1,092
Reaction score
1
I have a GPR that's my first flinter. I haven't shot it a lot, but I do get what I believe to be too many mis-fires. Some flash in the pans, and some nothing.
I've heard where T.C. have had some lock problems, but how about the Lymans?
I've tried different flints, even Rich Pierce's, but the results are about the same. I saw some photos of a lock sparking, and I don't get near what these photos show. Also, the sparks that I do get, are orange, not white. Is this a sign that my frizzen isn't hard enough? I've tried the bevel both ways, and set the flint at various distances from the frizzen.
I bought the gun used, but I don't think it's had all that many rounds fired out of it.
What do all you experts think?

Thanks
 
First, solve the bevel up or down problem to see which way the flint fits best on your lock. Judge this by manually controlling the hammer action through the frizzen strike so you can get a good visual. Your flint should be very close but not touching the frizzen at 1/2 cock on most locks.It should not smash into the frizzen, but scrape along it. the flint should seat all the way into the jaws of the cock. If you are using a leather pad to hold the flint you may want to try lead sheet instead. I suggest picking the flash hole every time before priming, that solved my flash in the pan problem. I also suggest having a gunsmith knowledgeable in flintlocks tune the lock for you (if that is an option).
 
I had the same problems with my GP flintlock configuration. I put in a Jim Chambers touch hole liner, rehardened the frizzen, and used a cut agate flint. This improved matters somewhat.
 
You say the following: "Some flash in the pans, and some nothing." Hence the problems may be two fold or maybe not but since you get some flash in the pans it makes me think there is ALSO another issue. So, my first questions have to do with powder: What are you using for powder in the load (in the barrel)? And what are you using for pan powder? If you are using synthetic powder that is problem ONE. Get real black powder.

Also, do you clean the frizzen and flint face after a few pan flashes? You can use alcohol for this or, water/spit as long as you dry it off BEFORE adding pan powder. You must keep the frizzen and flint CLEAN.

Also, is your flint wrapped in lead or leather in the jaws of the hammer? And is it TIGHT enough that you can't move the flint with your fingers after tighting it down? Loose or poorly aligned flint will cause ignition problems.

Also, how many shots have you atken with that flint? Do you have NEW flints you can try? If so, how do brand new flints work? When a flint is old it will NOT spark well at all.

I know I asked several questions but usually it is related to one of the above and NO machining or hardening is needed.
 
-----dry fire the lock in the dark--then you really know how many sparks you are getting-----in the day lite you don't see most of the sparks-----
 
Sorry about being so vague.
I'm using 3f Goex for the charge, and 4f in the pan.
I've tried various pan charge positions.
I've tried various flints.
I've tried various flint positions.
I have tried picking and not picking.
My flints are very tight, lined with leather.
I have been participating in this board and others for a good while, and have read what I thought was all there was to know about shooting flint guns, but it seems that there is more to learn.
I'm thinking that my frizzen isn't hard enough, but haven't heard where the GPR has had this problem. Kinda makes me wonder if this is why the guy sold it.
 
Is the face of the pan polished smooth? We don't hear about soft frizzens in the lyman guns much, so I doubt that is the problem. I do worry about the flint wrap. If you can use Thin RAW hide, it will work better than does thicker tanned leather.

I am not a fan of the cut agate flints. They do not fracture along the natural fracture lines of a flint. As a flint is used, the edge works back until the edge becomes rounded. That is when you lift up the frizzen enough with the side of your left thumb, so that when you manually lower the cock down, the flint will strike the "heel" of the face of the frizzen. Hold the frizzen in that position, with your thumb back enough so that the flint is not going to cut flesh!, and then cock the hammer and pull the trigger. The flint will strike this lower portion of the frizzen at a very sharp angle, which will chip off a nice new, sharp edge on the old rounded edged flint. The spawl that is removed will work back on the underside of the flint, allowing the flint to keep a sharp edge longer.

Always check to see where the sparks are landing in the pan, when the lock is dry fired. Hold the gun out so that you are looking at the lock from the side and slightly above the pan. Turn out the lights in a room, and wait 10-15 minutes for your pupils to dilate, so you can see the sparks, their color, and their quantity better. You will also be able to see if the sparks land forward of center of the pan, in the center, or to the rear of the pan.

If the sparks are hitting to the rear of the pan, its time to move the flint forward in the jaws, if there is enough left to still be grabbed by the jaws of the cock. Use a twig the right size to keep the flint and flint wrap in the forward position.

I put the cock in the half cock notch, close the frizzen, and then set the flint so that the front edge is about 1/32-1/64" from the face of the frizzen. In that position, the sparks in my lock are thrown forward of center in the pan, allowing me 15-20 shots before the flint has to be moved again. I can get 80-120 shots out of a rifle flint barring any defects in the flint that shorten its working life.

This should be common sense, but it seems that common sense is not always that common! The whole purpose of striking the frizzen with that flint is to produce SPARKS, and throw them down into the pan where the priming powder waits to be ignited. If the sparks don't hit the powder, you don't get the powder burning. If the sparks dribble down the face of the frizzen, burning out before they finally fall towards the pan, you don't get the burning you need. If the flint doesn't cut steel, you don't get the sparks to ignite the powder. If the frizzen doesn't pop open soon enough to get out of the way of the sparks being thrown down into the pan, you aren't going to get fast ignition.

Everything you do regarding that cock and frizzen is for the purpose of not only making sparks but getting them into the powder in the flash pan as fast as possible. If you keep that guiding principle in mind as you work on your gun, oiling all pivot points, and contact surfaces, polishing contact surfaces to they move easy, etc. you will figure out what is wrong with the lock and be able to fix it. :thumbsup:
 
Orange sparks are a sign of a soft frizzen.

I don't know about these guns. Is the touch hole direct drilled or is there a patent breech. flashes with no kaboom can be manure in the patent breech.

Ben
 
I own a GPR also i have had some issues with mine also. I have less than 100 rounds thru mine. When i first shot mine it would only drop to the half cock position on a few shots.I found that wood shavings in the lock mortise needed to be removed that solved the problem of the "some nothings".Still i get a flash in the pan sometimes if i don't wipe it clean after each shot,and i give the pan a double shot from my primer flask which seems to help also. :thumbsup:
 
I have a GPR flinter and the only problem I had stemmed from the touch hole liner. I had a lot of flash in the pan, so I drilled the touch hole to 1/16th inch. That helped, but still was not right. I drilled the touch hole to 5/64th inch, slightly coned the outside of the vent and trimmed the liner to the thickness of the barrel at the touch hole. After this she fires first time, every time. :thumbsup:
 
My brother and I both have GPR's and on both of them the frizzen is too soft and was just case hardened a little we both made up a 1 mil thick sliver of file steel and installed it on the face of the frizzen, I used epoxy glue, my bro used mild steel rivets countersunk and filed flush, both of our locks have been working flawlessly for the last 3 years ,I shoot about 1000 shots ayear from this gun , I also have a chambers vent liner and have done a bit of work on the trigger and sear
 
One thing that may help your flash in the pan problem is to open the touch hole in the liner to 1/16" or #50 wire gauge. Most of the liners I have seen have the hole too small for consistant ignition of the main charge.
 
I've always used 3/32 drill for venting. Turner Kirkland recommended that back when I first started. The only time I ever used smaller I started getting flashes in the pan, I opened it up and they stopped. The slight loss in velocity is more than made up in reliability! Add a little powder.

File steel makes the best frizzen face I know of. The hardness is accompanied by abradability! I use 3/32" drill for riveting and #6 finishing nails for rivets.
 
cowpoke1955 said:
I have a GPR flinter and the only problem I had stemmed from the touch hole liner. I had a lot of flash in the pan, so I drilled the touch hole to 1/16th inch. That helped, but still was not right. I drilled the touch hole to 5/64th inch, slightly coned the outside of the vent and trimmed the liner to the thickness of the barrel at the touch hole. After this she fires first time, every time. :thumbsup:

Best advise so far !
 
Ben as to your question ,, yes Lyman use a patent breech style, I have developed a habit of thumping on the side of the barrel to encourage the powder to settle down thru that little channel ,, not a problem when clean but with a bit of fouling you can end up with a space at the vent with no ore very little powder . bangin on the barrel helps eliminate the problem . Chris
 
I had a problem with my Xmas GPR of flash-in-the-pan but no ignition of the main charge. I unscrewed the vent liner and found there was no powder whatever in the "powder chamber".
I worked out that pouring FFg down the barrel led to "clumping" at the mouth of the powder chamber and that there was no way whatever that a flame from the vent could ignite the main charge.

I now pour my powder in slowly, tapping the side of the rifle as I do so. This works, but I plan to use only FFFg in future - hopefully this will not clog at the mouth of the powder chamber.
 
I had simliar problems with mine but they went away when I installed a new larger touch hole liner and switched from 2f to 3f for the main charge. Now it fires every time.
 
I know when I first started out w/ my GPR that I had a few of the problems you mentioned. Problem is that it sounds like you have already tried the things that worked for me.
- 3F charge powder instead of 2f
- Tom Fuller English flints (very nice), bevel down
- STOPPED picking the flash hole (heresy perhaps, but my gun doesn't seem to like it when I pick the hole routinely)
- Full flash pan rather than filled partially and rocked to the side (again a gun-specific trait)
- 4f pan charge
- All oil wiped off the frizzen face (haven't needed alcohol or anything, just a dry cloth)
- Lead flint wrap hammered to a fingernail's thickness
 

Latest posts

Back
Top