Possession by Certain Persons

[Josh Smith]

Hello,

I've been absent for a long while and I apologize for that. Business and family keep me very busy.

I volunteer with an organization which will remain anonymous. We attempt to help those coming from prison get their lives on track and go straight. Sometimes it works.

In many (most) cases these folks are non-violent felons, and a lot of the guys are former hunters.

Federal law now restricts them from possessing firearms using fixed ammunition, and modern muzzleloaders using 209 primers etc.

Federal law does not, however, restrict non-fixed ammunition, antique or antique-style firearms which may not be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition.

Where I get lost is Indiana law. It APPEARS that non-violent felons may possess cap and ball pistols and muzzleloading rifles utilizing sidelocks.

Most of these felons are only for possession, and not for violent felonies.

It's rare enough that an addict can maintain sobriety and go straight. HOWEVER, some do.

In the course of resuming his or her life, I would hate to see the hunter in question arrested and charged for possession of a firearm.

I've read the Indiana law, and what I'm researching here is only this: Do you folks personally know of non-violent felons in Indiana who use traditional black powder muzzleloading arms for hunting, etc?

Court opinions would be helpful, as well, if there are any.

I've already consulted a couple attorneys with varying opinions.

In the past, I've found the good folks here helpful and knowledgeable beyond the skills of the average lawyer.

Facts and opinions based on law are very welcome.

Thank you in advance.

Regards,

Josh

 

[silly goose]

I would start asking questions within your jurisdiction, of those who would be enforcing and or prosecuting said laws. Good luck.

 

[coloradoclyde]

When legislators pass poorly written laws, it comes down to interpretation and definitions.
Many poorly written and passed laws are being challenged in the courts these days...
Felony restriction is becoming the new "gun control" as legislators across the country are changing misdemeanors into felonies.

The person you probably need to talk to is the Indiana Attorney General.


Disclaimer:
I'm not a lawyer and am not giving legal advice.

 

[curator]

Josh Smith,

This is a "grey area" where State and Federal laws may not concur. While convicted felons may possess traditional and antique firearms, and hunt with them in Indiana, that might not be lawful on Federal land. You need to get a written opinion from your State's Attorney General to be certain.

In Florida convicted felons may own antique and traditional muzzle loading guns, but there is some confusion as to whether these guns can be loaded or fired. Our last three Attorneys General have had different opinions--yes, no, maybe. Having the current SAG's written opinion on one's person might be a wise move if a felon and having access to a loaded muzzle loading firearm.

 

[Skychief]

Bo and Luke Duke had to go the stick and string route, but that was in Georgia.

 

[robert bw]

I am a convicted Fl. felon(never have I ever criminally misused a firearm at all)there are probably millions of similar felons.IMO it is another form of disarmament.if some one has clearly demonstrated they are dangerous with a gun that is another story,(for those of you who poo poo reformed felons,remember if we were all held to account for every one of our actions,very few of us could still bear arms)I bought mine(1858 old army buffalo)from the local pawn shop.previous owner was a felon also,local leo tried to give us both greif,turns out,perfectly legal,however,transporting should allways be unloaded.i even keep a trigger lock on mine.only carry it to and from shooting,other than that it stays unloaded and trigger locked.you will here many different opinions,very little of which is factual.bottom line,read your state law carefully.i am certain fl law allows original or reproduction1918 or earlier vintage(no in lines).

 

[robert bw]

and remember,our founding fathers were all felons,every last one of em.youthfull indesrections should be just that.

 

[Onojutta]

IMO it is another form of disarmament.

Yep. Makes about as much sense as losing your drivers license for being arrested for riding a bicycle drunk. Thanks to the Lautenburg Ammendment, it even touch misdemeanor offenses.

 

[Claude Mathis]

Just a reminder that the quesiton here is...

Do you folks personally know of non-violent felons in Indiana who use traditional black powder muzzleloading arms for hunting, etc?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just a reminder that the quesiton here is...

Do you folks personally know of non-violent felons in Indiana who use traditional black powder muzzleloading arms for hunting, etc?

He also said;

Facts and opinions based on law are very welcome.

 

[robert bw]

while my info may not pertain specifically to indy.it may nevertheless lead in a relevant direction,as I said,"bottom line,read your state laws"i did and I aint no lawyer but that aint required to understand your state law with your own eyes.proceed with caution.P.S. laws aint based on opinion(least they aint sposed to be)

 

[Skychief]

while my info may not pertain specifically to indy.it may nevertheless lead in a relevant direction,as I said,"bottom line,read your state laws"i did and I aint no lawyer but that aint required to understand your state law with your own eyes.proceed with caution.P.S. laws aint based on opinion(least they aint sposed to be)

No they aren't swamp chicken. They are not.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Then what are they?

 

[Josh Smith]

Thank you, gents. While I certainly disagree with many laws, I didn't come to discuss what should be as that usually leads to the political and hard feelings.

I've written the Indiana AG and am awaiting a reply. I'm afraid this will ultimately need to be challenged in court. Hypothetically it seems legal but, as most alluded to, you don't know until there's a case.

I think the best route is to advise bows and crossbows, and do not call attention to possession of muzzleloaders unless necessary.

Regards,

Josh

 

[robert bw]

agreed!! :bow:didnt mean to start a fire :surrender:

 

[necchi]

Dicey at best.
Many let out on parole face strict standards or rules of their release that can last for years.
Having any type of "firearm" may not violate laws, but rules of parole.(a different ball game)
Encourage fishing. It gets people out into the natural environment as much as hunting and can at times be more rewarding when weighing the game bag.
Sounds to me like your being played Josh by someone wanting to push the limit of law, newly released felons need a new way of living for many years before stepping back into what they considered their normal life.

 

[Josh Smith]

Hi Necchi,

No, sir, I'm not being played. We (this is a group, not just me) consist of clergy, former law enforcement (specifically, the former county sheriff and his wife, an agent for drug court), educators, and a few reformed felons, some of whom have been clean for many, many years.

As an avid fisherman myself, I encourage the heck out of that activity, and always have a rod with rebuilt reel should anyone want to go.

A realization of a lot of these folks upon release from probation is the "oh manure! I've lost my rights!" issue.

These folks know that it's not something they can take back up immediately. They are trying to determine their new positions in life and this is one of the many issues, but also one which is hardest to answer.

I'm not being played. Permanent recovery is only about 1-3%. I personally think depression over their new lifetime limits in employment, government assistance in dang near anything, as well as limits on their rights contribute to a "why bother" attitude - - one which helps lead them back down the same path they were on before.

The more they can look forward to, the more incentive they have for staying clean.

Regards,

Josh

 

I've written the Indiana AG and am awaiting a reply. I'm afraid this will ultimately need to be challenged in court.

That's all you needed to do in the first place. All the anecdotal evidence and opinions on the internet are irrelevant. (but you know that)

 

[Lorne Johnson]

You are quite correct that this is a gray area until it has been tried in court, appealed etc.

I know of people in Vermont and Massachusetts who may not possess firearms and hunt with muzzle loaders. At least some have been advised by legal counsel that this is legal. Vermont just passed a law to parallel the Federal law because Federal officials are not willing to prosecute minor violations of this type with cartridge guns. They simply have too many major violations to pursue. Obviously, the exact meaning of that law has not been tested in court as yet.

 

[Pete G]

Our local club had a guy that was arrested for federal firearms violations. He was placed on probation and stripped of his rights to modern guns, but could posses and use antique (pre-1898)arms, Black Powder Cartridge rifles included. That was in MS. Sometimes state laws are more stringent than the fed. I would use your contacts and talk to the current sheriff.